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D&D 3E
xposted 3e rules question 
20th-Jul-2004 02:31 pm
a sorcerer has a certain number of spells to cast per day, and a certain number of spells known. assuming you start as a first level sorcerer, then multiclass to a wizard, does that mean that you can spontaneously cast any of the zero and first level spells you may eventually learn as a wizard using your first level sorcerer spells per day? if so it seems like a smart way to design your character. the ability to pick spells spontaneously (even first level spells) is pretty sweet, especially at later levels when you know most of the first level spells.
20th-Jul-2004 11:40 am (UTC)
when multiclassing between the two you must keep your spell lists, spells per day and even bonus spells seperate.
20th-Jul-2004 12:05 pm (UTC)
They're learned in different ways. Sorcerers cast by force-of-will, wizards by long study. Wizards can learn new spells through research; sorcerers cannot.

I'd say the ideas are incompatible, and I'd try chewing the arm off of anyone who multiclassed like that, due to their [Censored by the Bavarian Illuminati] sudden bookkeeping to keep track of which spell is cast in which way.
20th-Jul-2004 12:17 pm (UTC) - hmm...
I'd be fine if someone wanted to multiclass between sorceror and wizard...they had power inborn in them, but were conduction research to try to harness more of that power...

as long as they did the bookkeeping and kept them seperate.

same as a mage-cleric really...
20th-Jul-2004 12:28 pm (UTC)
the bookkeeping wouldn't be hard at all. you'd still memorize your wizard spells per day before hand and check them off as cast, and you'd have free spontaneous spell slots appropriate for whatever your sorcerer level is. i think the better argument against is the different methods of learning/casting.
20th-Jul-2004 12:38 pm (UTC)
You must have more... Responsible, I guess would be the right word, players than I've had in the past. A common line is, "How many spells have I can so far?"

Needless to say, the idea of them having to track multiple sets is a nightmare, although I'm sure more attentive players could handle it easily.
20th-Jul-2004 12:47 pm (UTC)
my groups not good at a lot of things, actually getting together to play being one of the things we're not so good at. but for some reason we're all good spell-keeper-tracker-ofers... yeah. anyway all the spell casters have spell sheets and check them off as they cast them. never occured to me that that would be a problem.
20th-Jul-2004 12:48 pm (UTC)
"How many spells have I can so far?"

You need better players, or at least players who can keep track of that themselves. A DM has better things to worry about, like how many spells the NPCs have cast.
20th-Jul-2004 12:54 pm (UTC)
every group has their flaws. if my crew was worse at keeping track of their spells but better at not cancelling at the last minute because they'd rather do something else, i'd be cool with that. the worst problem we have when we actually play is arguing. we have one player who can be insanely antagonistic and one who is insanely thin skinned. we try to keep them apart.
20th-Jul-2004 01:01 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I suppose. I suppose I just come from a group where the DM didn't even know a lot of the time what spells were being cast from what source.

But fighting certainly sucks. Towards the end of our campaign, one of our players managed to get into a fight with our DM pretty much every session. It was not pretty.
20th-Jul-2004 04:06 pm (UTC)
you'd still memorize your wizard spells per day before hand and check them off as cast,

and the additional subtlety that as well as marking the spell off as used, increment the spells cast per day. Usually academic, but if you prepare spells with a Headband of Intellect and then lose it, you have to track your spells memorised and spells per day separately as they get out of whack: you can end up with six spells prepared of which you can cast five.

Not strictly relevant but shows the book-keeping can be awkward. With a Socereror/Wizard its not too hard though: just track everything as if it were too separate characters!
20th-Jul-2004 12:31 pm (UTC)
By the book, they're completely separate. If it were my decision to make, then I'd say go for it if you really want to, since you're giving up eventual levels of wizard and getting delayed access to higher spell levels in exchange for that bit of flexibility, and in the end trading a 9th-level spell for a few spontaneous 1st-level spells. It doesn't unbalance much, I wouldn't think.
20th-Jul-2004 12:33 pm (UTC)
in one of the FR sourcebooks there's a feat you can take at high levels... i forget what its called, spell mastery or something. you pick one low-level spell and you can cast it at will whenever you want regardless of spell slots available.
20th-Jul-2004 12:45 pm (UTC)
So take that feat then. :)
20th-Jul-2004 12:55 pm (UTC)
well, its not really the same thing, and you have to be very high level. its not exactly the low-level quick fix i was thinking of :)
20th-Jul-2004 01:10 pm (UTC)

If you want a quick fix, but are worried about the source-of-power issues, then I'd probably have a couple feats I'm making up on the fly here, with stricter minimum requirements as desired:

Prereqs: Levels of wizard and sorcerer
Benefit: You may use your sorcerer spell slots to cast any spell of equal or lower level that you have memorized as a wizard, or that has been cast since you last memorized spells.

Spontaneous casting
Prereqs: Levels of wizard and sorcerer, Recasting
Benefit: You may use your sorcerer spell slots to cast any spell of equal or lower level that you could have memorized as a wizard the last time you memorized spells. (i.e. you reviewed the spell during your preparation or something similar.)
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