That's what we do as well. It works nicely, though I can't say much since I'm neither of the DMs.

whenever I DMed a game, I always had a character that acted as a guide, more or less dropped the random hint if my newbie players got really lost ("what should we do now?" "Why don't we go this way?" "Yay!") that was pretty much an npc or whatever y'know?

I say...kill the goon in a lovely and major way and if the guy whines about it, get another DM.

This is something I'll have to keep in mind, I think. I'm working on a campaign to lead one day and with it are two different well developed NPCs. I've been planning on them not being with the party, but peeking in once in a while. Seeing/hearing this, I'll be sure to be careful that they remain NPCs and don't be tempted to leave them with the party.

I frequently have low-player-count games, so either I drop an NPC in the round the party out or they invariably wind up hiring some guys to take the heat off. I try to keep the NPC as an afterthought though, and rarely will they run a roleplay encounter or even do particularly well in combat.

we have too many players already....

Don't play games, I say. If it's getting unbearable, just leave. Perhaps he'll get the hint, or maybe not. What's to gain in pissing him off first. And you KNOW he's gonna get pissed off.

ah but with some guys like that, half the fun IS pissing them off...

True, but I'd have a new DM lined up if that's the route you wanna take.

with a prat like that, gettin' rid of him could be a benifit. That's why you always have backups with DMs, cars, and jobs. Because you never know when the stuffs gonna hit the fan...

I think the part that annoys the other players (and myself) is that he stops and has to read the adventure (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil...

Keep in mind that RttToEE is mind-bogglingly long. I ran it for my group and ended up bringing in an NPC party to "take care of the problems" off-camera and just let the PC party tackle bits and pieces of it.

I tried to prepare for each game session by reading and re-reading the relevant sections and making notes and bookmarking important NPCs and stuff, but there's just so much there that it's easy to get lost and have to stop and read chunks of it again.

I have seen this far too often. The DM has an ego the size of the goodyear blimp. Get rid of him. If you try to kill off his character it won't work and your character will likely die horribly in the attempt. If you try to lose him, he'll just find you like a nerdy hanger-on.

There's only one solution and that is to permanently make the guy a player. At least until he can show he's mature enough to focus on the game instead of on himself.

As for killing his goon, DMs will sometimes sacrafice a single player for their favorite character. Collude with the party and have the whole group kill him off. That way, the DM has to choose between alienating one player, or all of them. Plus, it should send a pretty clear message that you would like to be the star of your own adventures.

I've seen this too. In fact your dm sounds like my old dm's twin.

Brian revived an old campaign (not his own) and we all revived our old characters. Keith, though dming, wanted to play his own character too and essentially play as he dmed, with his character, Blackwood, taking an equal share in EP.

Problem was, Blackwood kept jumping into the front of every battle and hence hogged all the EP. Of course, Blackwood was always rather a grandstander as characters go, even in the original campaign.

As annoying as that was, our main beef with Brian was that he would stop to look up stuff like your dm would. But what Brian was looking up were things that no one could remember unless they had a photographic memory. The name of a minor npc clerk behind the counter of a tavern in the in Baldur's Gate, for instance. "Make something up and let's go," we'd shout. But no, he'd spend 45 minutes looking in Volo Guide after Volo Guide, trying to find the guy's name. And the npc wasn't even important to the plot.

Brian had a pacing problem to say the least.

It got to the point where our fire mage attacked an army of orcs we were meant to go around, just so something would happen in the game.

Brian didn't forget much, but he lived and breathed his campaign to such an extent that you hated to be around the guy outside of the game. "Are you intrigued? Have you noticed the hints and subplots I've laid out. Did you pick up on the nuances I've added to my character's personality?" All well and good, unless that's all the guy can talk about.

He ended up quiting us before we had a chance to quit him. I think he realized we were getting disgruntled, and he just wasn't getting the same level of love and commitment that he wanted from his players.

christ...tell your ex-dm to come and take his twin...or something :)

You're kinda screwed any way you go it sounds to me. I guess it depends in part on the DM's temperment but if you try and rid yourself of the goon (regardless of how) he may take it badly and then take it out on the party. A unified front is a definite requirement. The whole group needs to be behind the push to get rid of the goon for best results. If the DM sees that everyone is unhappy with things then he may see the error of his ways and the campaign can continue happier and goon-less. If not, then I'd say either quit or get all the players to agree to go out in a blaze of glory by killing the goon and the survivors charging into the heart of the dungeon, attacking anything that moves until all are dead. If that doesn't get the message across, nothing will.

but is that a Bothan image in your icon?

Your powers of observation serve you well. It is indeed.

is that from a graphic novel or something? I don't think I've seen bothan artwork in color; of course my only frame of reference is RPG books

I found it on the web. The original is a bit bigger. I had to carefully trim it down to get it to fit within LJ's limits without screwing the image up.

nice job

First, I would talk to the DM. Tell him that you think the additional character stinks. Does he limit your experience points because there is an additional character to split the total with?

I have been DM'ing for over 20 years. I don't put NPC's in the scenario unless they are necessary (shop keepers, locals, royalty). There has been only one or two times that I ran an NPC in a party (mostly as an evil character who is trying to sabotage the party.) The usually figure it out and kill him -- which is what they are supposed to do.

As a DM, if I want the party to know something, I tell them straight out! If I want them to find out something, I incorporate clues in the game that will allow them to figure it out. If I think that they are doing something wrong, I let them play it out, and afterwords I'll say: "It would have been better if you did X."

The DM you got is not playing up to snuff. Tell him I said so. ACTUALLY, just print this and give it to him.

-Sheldon Smith.