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D&D 3E
savage species questions 
12th-Dec-2003 10:47 am
my campaign based on the 4 elements looks like it might actually happen, unlike so may of my other failed campaigns. i'm meeting with one of the players tonight to discuss his character. i have some questions for you regarding his ideas. they look odd for a normal campaign but its high fantasy, so pretty much nothing is off limits but i don't want a munckin fest either.

one of my players wants to use the rules in savage species to make a new race of creatures 1' tall. i'm cool with that, i like the idea actually. but it brings about the problem of equipment. he's not going to find weapons or items he can use. i don't want to force vorpal knitting needles and copper peices +1/+4 vs missiles into the game. he plans to be a spellcaster. any scrolls he finds will be as big as bed sheets, wands as big as staves. any suggestions?

another player has asked if he could play a dragon. i don't really mind, its a pretty fantastic campaign. is there a good way to do it using the rules in savage species? i kind of doubt it. i'm borrowing the book tonight but i'd like some feedback on it. think it would be feasible to have a wormling dragon fit into a party without completely unbalancing the game? do rules for such a think exist anywhere?
12th-Dec-2003 08:08 am (UTC)
For the Diminutive character:
Well, anything his hoime species has made will be his size. And its up to you to decide if his species is prevelant in the world or not -- if it is, everything is easier.

Another rule to deal with that comes from the old Armor rule -- the armor would resize to the chartacter in question. You could play all magic items work that way.

Or the PC will just have to live with needing to get their items crafted for them, as they aren't going to find much their size. (You can also use some of the 3.0-ish rules for weaons, such as a normal dagger is about the size of a hand-and-half sword for a dimminutive character).

As dfor the dragon: Uh. Not a Good Idea. First is every hero in the realm will have the opportunity to become a dragonslayer, right quick. I'd stick to half-dragons, which are better established in the rules.
12th-Dec-2003 08:17 am (UTC) - Monster Manual Templates
There are some templates for small people, but most of them are around the two foot variety - pixie, etc.

As for a dragon character, have you talked about a half-dragon PC. There are a bunch of templates for 1/2dragon pcs. I particularly like the 1/2 dragon sorcerer. For melee weapons he uses claw/claw/bite (full round) or single claw with weapon focus. For ranged weapon he has a breath weapon every 1d4 rounds.

As DM you can take or leave anything in the template, but I caution you on giving away the farm.
12th-Dec-2003 08:22 am (UTC) - Re: Monster Manual Templates
yeah, that's the second suggestion i've gotten for half dragon. i'll consider that. what resource is the template in?
12th-Dec-2003 08:41 am (UTC) - Re: Monster Manual Templates
I got this from:

Half-dragon creatures are always more formidable than others of their kind that do not have dragon blood, and their appearance betrays their nature—scales, elongated features, reptilian eyes, and exaggerated teeth and claws. Sometimes they have wings.
“Half-dragon” is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
A half-dragon uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves.
Hit Dice: Increase base creature’s racial HD by one die size, to a maximum of d12. Do not increase class HD.
Speed: A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings.
Armor Class: Natural armor improves by +4.
Attack: A half-dragon has two claw attacks and a bite attack, and the claws are the primary natural weapon. If the base creature can use weapons, the half-dragon retains this ability. A half-dragon fighting without weapons uses a claw when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead.
Full Attack: A half-dragon fighting without weapons uses both claws and its bite when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw as an additional natural secondary attack.
Damage: Half-dragons have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table below. Otherwise, use the values below or the base creature’s damage values, whichever are greater.
Size Bite Damage Claw Damage
Fine 1 —
Diminutive 1d2 1
Tiny 1d3 1d2
Small 1d4 1d3
Medium 1d6 1d4
Large 1d8 1d6
Huge 2d6 1d8
Gargantuan 3d6 2d6
Colossal 4d6 3d6
Special Attacks: A half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains a breath weapon based on the dragon variety (see the table below), usable once per day. A half-dragon’s breath weapon deals 6d8 points of damage. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 half-dragon’s racial HD + half-dragon’s Con modifier) reduces damage by half.
Dragon Variety Breath Weapon
Black 60-foot line of acid
Blue 60-foot ine of lightning
Green 30-foot cone of corrosive (acid) gas
Red 30-foot cone of fire
White 30-foot cone of cold
Brass 60-foot line of fire
Bronze 60-foot line of lightning
Copper 60-foot line of acid
Gold 30-foot cone of fire
Silver 30-foot cone of cold
Special Qualities: A half-dragon has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision. A half-dragon has immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, and an additional immunity based on its dragon variety.
Dragon Variety Immunity Dragon Variety Immunity
Black Acid Brass Fire
Blue Electricity Bronze Electricity
Green Acid Copper Acid
Red Fire Gold Fire
White Cold Silver Cold
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2.
Skills: A half-dragon gains skill points as a dragon and has skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier) x(HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the half-dragon gains dragon skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class.
Environment: Same as either the base creature or the dragon variety.
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature + 2 (minimum 3).
Alignment: Same as the dragon variety.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +3.
12th-Dec-2003 08:45 am (UTC) - Re: Monster Manual Templates
interesting. level offset 3. i suppose i can let everyone start at 4th level so he can have one class level.
12th-Dec-2003 08:29 am (UTC)
oooh my dm had us play this game where we encountered a magical sewing kit that turned us into fine versions of ourselves. the needles were rapiers +1 and the thread were ropes of entangling, the thimbles were helms and stuff link that. it was fun . a fine character using characteristic equivalent items will actually add charm to a game. i think
12th-Dec-2003 08:33 am (UTC)
maybe. i think he plans on being a sorceror or mage so i think i'll make him make his own stuff or have it made. although i think i will allow him to use magic wands as staves.
12th-Dec-2003 08:35 am (UTC)
have you read the dark elf trilogy from forgotten realms(salvatore) there is a quickling assassin in that book? and he was fierce!
12th-Dec-2003 08:39 am (UTC)
i did read it, and i remember the character. but he was more pixie sized, about 2' tall. this player i think wants a 1' tall character.
12th-Dec-2003 09:55 am (UTC)
I can't really help with the little guy problem...that is well...just silly...you guYs could step on him or whatnot...whats he going to do anyway? tickle an orges feet?

but as for your dragon issue...use the Draconomicon...it has awesome rules for playing a full dragon PC and also gives special dragon pantheons, feats, spells, and prestige classes
so go for that instead of using savage species and instead of using a half-dragon PC
12th-Dec-2003 10:03 am (UTC)
the little guy is a little weird. but its what he wants and i think it could work out. he's gonna be a rogue or a spellcaster. so he'll stink in combat but he could be ok otherwise.

the draconomicon eh? who publshes it?
12th-Dec-2003 10:05 am (UTC)
it is the newest D&D book put out by Wizard of the Coast..it is under the Dragonlance name...and has all kinds of rules for dragons from birth till death and for PC character creation...

i picked it up last night from work and read it...awesome stuff
12th-Dec-2003 10:08 am (UTC)
interesting. does it have dragons as leveled classes? can you start a dragon character as a level 1 character?
12th-Dec-2003 10:15 am (UTC)
You can start a dragon at level 1
but the dragon has an ECL ranging anywhere from 2 to 6 [this depends on the dragons age and of what type it is]
and as from what i understand...dragons do not have classes
What happens with a dragon PC is the player is a huge beast...[no class needed] but..later on the player may choose a dragon only prestige class that can give him access to spells and whatnot...its kind of hard to explain w/out you looking at the book...ya know...but its a good thing for you to pick up and would be great for your dragon playing friend
12th-Dec-2003 10:17 am (UTC)
yeah i should pick it up. the part about:"What happens with a dragon PC is the player is a huge beast..." seems odd. i'd think they'd start a PC as a wymrling. any large dragon would have to be much higher than level 1, i would think.
12th-Dec-2003 10:18 am (UTC)
that is true...i feel the same as you...but the book said the player could start at any age and be any type of dragon
also with dragons...they have complete immunity to the element of their breath weapon [i.e. red dragons can get hit with fireballs and take no damage]
12th-Dec-2003 02:54 pm (UTC)
Actually, it appears to be a general D&D book with no specific setting. The unique thing being that it doesn't follow the cover scheme.
12th-Dec-2003 09:44 pm (UTC)
you are right
12th-Dec-2003 12:54 pm (UTC)
shrink item..... a mage spell... perhaps he can cast it once day or something.
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