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D&D 3E
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5th-Jan-2007 08:22 am
I ditched the Warmage idea, too much to learn in a short period of time.

Anyway, I decided on a human fighter(I know, bo-ring), but that extra feat and skill points always seem to outweigh the other race bonuses to me. I'm interested in hearing some ideas for advancement in the core rules and possibly Complete Warrior. I might switch to a class out of Complete Warrior before the game starts too.

As it stands, the three feats I took were Weapon Focus(Greatsword - hard to pass up 2D6+3 damage at level 1 with a threat of 19-20), Power Attack, and Cleave(STR 17). I might change that up based on comments or something I see in CW.

5th-Jan-2007 01:59 pm (UTC)
Fighters are... boring, like you said.
They don't add much flavor class-wise, and they don't add much power except at low levels. As I've heard someone say before, the best fighters are those that are only fighters for two or four levels.

A lot of things have changed since then though. The PHB2 has added a lot of fighter feats that make fighters.... less boring. They're still boring to someone like me that prefers skilltastic characters or mages, but they are a lot better off than you were with just CW and the PHB1...

... which brings us to the problem. You only mentioned CW and the core rules. For fighters, that means you're going to suck not only power-wise but flavor-wise past level 4 or so. I mean, come on, you already have every point of your build at level 1 from what you mentioned above.

What do you want to do with the character? Do you know what niche you're going to fill in the party? I only briefly glanced over the old warmage topic when you posted before, as I've only played one adventure with my gestalt warmage/beguiler.

Is your goal to be a tank? Is your goal to be a meat shield? Is your goal raw power? Is your goal to play as a strong yet silent character? Is your goal to play as the proverbial "big brother" to the group?
Tell us your goals - whether that be a mechanical goal, roleplaying goal, or both.
5th-Jan-2007 04:50 pm (UTC)
The goal is to be the head brute for the guy in charge. As it stands, the party already runs a small town. I guess "problem solver" might be the best way to describe the character....
5th-Jan-2007 06:29 pm (UTC)
fighters dont have to be boring you get so many feats that the options are limitless as to how you evolve the charictor . fighters are only boring if your building a tank. They all end up the same butbut the same can be said for any class.
5th-Jan-2007 06:25 pm (UTC)
The thing about Fighters is that they're all about specialization. They can be boring, yes, but they only fail to add flavor if the player fails to take them in a direction.

Two primary ways to go here:

1) Efficient: Pick a direction to specialize in (tank, "big sword," archer, etc.), then make sure you take only the feats that make him good at that, and skills that compliment. Then (and here's the trick), you ROLE PLAY his personality in such a way as to make him interesting (is he determined to be the very best at what he does - constantly practicing, always looking for the next challenge, etc.? Or is he lazy, and doing this only because "it's what I'm good at"?). It's all about personality at that point. He uses a Greatsword, and is a flunky to the town boss - is he compensating for something?

2) Color: Do the unthinkable, and don't take the most efficient skills and feats. Make him weird, or off-the-wall. Maybe he's a guy who was drafted as a kid, and discovered that he's a "natural" at this killing thing, but when the war was over, he was cut loose, and now he's trying to figure out what to do with his life. He's been wandering, picking up things here and there, and now sort of "lucked into" his current job "while he looks for something better." Give him 2-3 ranks in a craft, or a profession (or two), take a feat that's not in the "feat chain" for a greatsword specialist-type. As he gains levels, have him pick up other weapons, other skills, and/or other classes. Role play him as curious, or distracted, something other than "big dumb fighter with huge sword." Actually, big dumb guy with a sword can be fun too, especially if you add something to it, like "big dumb guy with a pet hamster" (it's been done), or "big dumb guy who likes to wear purple," or even "big dumb guy who happens to be a brilliant painter/sculptor/etc." It throws people off, and adds color.

With ANY character, it's about the choices you make, and squelching (or perhaps giving in to) your inner Munchkin. I rarely go outside the core books for my characters, because there's so much versatility, if you're willing to have your character ignore the meta game and make choices that might not be "the best." With fighters, being "the best" at something is how they were designed, and what you choose to specialize in is a form of color for that class, so you get the best of both worlds you can be a master of something AND be colorful, depending on how many other people decide to do the same thing (of course, the competition that springs from that can also add color...).

Work with the DM and make sure that you will have opportunities to exhibit your character's color (be it through opportunities to do massive damage with that blade, or by having people notice that intricately detailed soap dove carving that your character made "because it was a pretty birdie").

Don't apologize for taking a specific class. Go with it, love it, and help everyone else around the table appreciate the care and personality you've put into this original character.

/soapbox. :-)
5th-Jan-2007 06:33 pm (UTC)
I have to admit...it bugs me when people dismiss any type of character as "boring." It's one thing to say that a class or race or combo doesn't appeal to you. I, for example, don't have much desire to play a pure arcane spellcaster (although I'm considering the duskblade class from the Players Handbook 2 for when it's time to retire my current character and reboot the campaign). That's if I don't play a cleric. I like a character who can take a beating and come back for more. Personal preference, though.

That said, flavor can come as much from good roleplay as from skills or feats. What's your character like? How did he/she become a fighter in the first place? Where will you find him/her in town- in the tavern, practicing with whoever can be found in hopes of picking up a few new tricks? What do the character's parents think about them taking up adventuring (assuming you're starting at 1st level)? The answers to those questions and more can help add a lot of flavor and depth to your character.

I would highly recommend PHB2 for some of the feats. For one thing, there's one allowing a fighter with the Endurance feat to use the Con modifier rather than the Wis modifier for Will saves. And another with the Iron Will and Endurance pre-reqs that allows you to roll 2D20 on some will saves and use the higher result. And lots more that make a higher-level fighter more appealing from a power perspective.

You can also consider prestige classes, depending on what your DM will allow. Your feat choices make sense to me. But if you want to consider some of the PHB2 feats, you might consider taking Endurance or Iron Will, use Power Attack as your fighter bonus feat for 1st level, and take Cleave when you get the next fighter bonus feat.

Most of all...have fun.
5th-Jan-2007 07:39 pm (UTC)
Fighters are boring, sure...if you consider every other class boring. (What, exactly, is so interesting about getting into a fight, raging, and killing everything? Just an example.)

Anyways, one fighter build that I'm kinda stuck on right now is the Hoplite build. Spear & shield, lightly armored. I can't find the issue, but there was a feat specifically for this in Dragon magazine some time back. I'll hunt it down later, but it's too early in the day for me to walk back up two flights of stairs. -_-;

Anyways, human hoplite feats up to 6th level, sans the Dragon magazine feat:

1st level feat- Weapon Focus (short spear)
1st Fighter bonus feat- Improved Shield Bash
Human Bonus feat- Two-Weapon Fighting
2nd Fighter bonus feat- Combat Expertise
3rd level feat- Improved Trip
3rd Fighter bonus feat- Shield Charge (Complete Warrior)
6th level feat- Powerful Charge
4th Fighter bonus feat- Shield Slam (CW) -or- Formation Expert [Tactical] (CW)

A couple of things about it:

-It obviously requires you to have a high Dex, which not many Fighters go for.
-The damage output isn't as high as other fighter builds. He's not swinging around a Large size Greatsword with Monkey Grip and dealing 3d6+ on every hit.
-In all honesty, it works much better if you're with other fighters, especially if you want to utilize the Formation Expert tactical feat.

Personally, I love it, but it's not for everybody. :P Charging around the field bashing things with your shield (which is hopefully spiked XD) and then taking a full-attack action to smack them with shield and spear interchangably, is my cup of tea. The feats from level 3 onwards are all geared towards making the charge all that much better.

Shield Charge allows you to make a free trip attempt against any opponent you hit with your shield as a part of a charge. Having Improved Trip, obviously, helps that. Shield Slam, later on, forces them to also make a Fortitude save or be dazed. Powerful Charge just makes your charge more potent, since a shield bash deals a good bit less damage (percent-wise) to enemies beyond the lower levels.

Anyways, that's just my build. xD
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