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D&D 3E
Regular work without ranks in Profession 
26th-Jul-2006 02:22 pm
Milkman Dan
I've been wondering, are there guidelines for jobs that don't necessarily involve a Profession check? For example, I have a PC who put enough ranks in Handle Animal that he can train animals for certain general purposes by taking 10.

Would it be realistic for such a character to obtain a horse, train it, then sell it for a profit? If so, how would you handle it rules-wise?
Comments 
26th-Jul-2006 06:03 pm (UTC)
I would think the character would be able to handle the training part of the task, but unless they have other skills would be lacking in the skills for obtaining a good horse, marketing/bartering the sale, etc.
(Deleted comment)
26th-Jul-2006 09:23 pm (UTC)
I dunno, your example seems more like a straight hireling. The OP seemed more like he was talking about Craft (well-trained horse).
26th-Jul-2006 10:47 pm (UTC)
"Well my character Climbs things for money."

See, I think Climb is a bad comparison. Training animals is a useful life skill, and one that can be used to benefit others, not just yourself. (In and of itself.) Climbing, while sometimes useful, cannot be used to directly benefit other people.

However, I agree that dropping 4-5 ranks in "Profession: Animal Trainer" would be obligatory, even if it wasn't what was used to determine salary.
26th-Jul-2006 09:45 pm (UTC)
Sure. But it'd be a drop in the bucket compared to things he could otherwise be doing, like sacking dungeons and other more lucrative RPG activities.
27th-Jul-2006 02:03 pm (UTC)
Bingo.

"I made my Animal Training roll by 10, so I made 5 gp today."
"Really? I got jumped by a band of Orcs and picked up a cartload of masterwork armor & weapons, which I sold for hundreds of GP."

27th-Jul-2006 04:02 pm (UTC)
I play on a MUX, and a day that passes by in the 'real world' is treated as a day in the game world. And there's not always someone to run a plot. So there's an awful lot of downtime, going around the city to interact with other players, and the like. It gets worse when I can't regularly play.

I was looking for something for my PC to do in the meantime. So really, you're talking about the difference between 5 gp and no gp at all.
28th-Jul-2006 05:04 am (UTC)
Then in that case you actually are looking for the long-term, low-powered skill use, so you'd want a Professional skill: Animal trainer with the Animal Handling skill giving you a +2 synergy bonus.
26th-Jul-2006 10:08 pm (UTC)
Depends if you want to do it once or regularly for a year.

If your PC just wants to buy a horse, train it over the course of the adventure, and then sell it, I say let him. He could bring in a better price by showing that it's trained well and stuff. No ranks in Profession needed.

However, if he wants to try and make a living at training animals, he'll need ranks in professor. Or, conversely, as he tries to make a living training animals he'll gain levels in profession--maybe that year he spends breeding horses grants him a level of Expert and he drops most the skill points into Profession. In my opion, that's what gaining levels of an NPC class means.

I think the first option sounds fun, and the second sounds like something that D&D was not meant to accomodate. The game was not really designed around people who wanted to have a regular job; it's designed around adventurers. That's why the mechanics for profession are so vague and hard to understand (hence this question).
26th-Jul-2006 10:51 pm (UTC)
In my opion, that's what gaining levels of an NPC class means.

Yes! I agree with you. There was a comment a while ago (forget what community) that said "Prestidigitation is one of the most useful spells in the game." Which is true, when you define "useful" as "applicable to daily life." Dailly life? Not so much with the adventuring. I'm world-building right now, and I'm having a grand old time creating all these NPC-classed people. I'm toying with the idea of making everyone start with a level of an NPC class in the next game I run--probably by rolling dice to determine who gets what, since that would make things more interesting.
26th-Jul-2006 11:11 pm (UTC)
We've done something similar in a rather unusual game that we ran. They started as commoner, moved on the the 1/2 class thing mentioned in Unearthed Arcana(I think) designed for 1st level multiclassing but with only 1/2 of it, then finally a real first level. It went really well, even though a bit of playing around with the rules was necessary, and it meant that the PCs had actually played out some of their background in the town before real adventuring.
26th-Jul-2006 11:07 pm (UTC)
You can use perform to make money so there's no reason why not other appropriate skills(which I think this may be one of).

It would probably have to be done over a large amount of downtime by buying a foal and training it up. Simple training doesn't turn a riding horse into a warhorse, they're bred differently.
It would be more appropriate for the average adventurer to buy dogs and train them as guard animals; making money the same as with proffession probably. More likely still would be training an "animal circus" or something similar then using the training check as the perform check to make money for each show. That could also have an in game purpose as well as the obvious one; some of the animals may be useful, like the "bad dates" monkey in Indiana Jones.
27th-Jul-2006 03:58 pm (UTC)
Training animals to do tricks with the intend to use Perform rather than Profession is actually a pretty good idea. That hadn't occured to me.
27th-Jul-2006 05:30 pm (UTC)
Ahh the differences between the skills.

Simply put its vague. In this case a guy can train an animal to do certain things but in the end he isn't getting the best horse. He doesn't know the bets things to feed them. He doesn't know how to groom them to mak ethem look presentable. So in the end I would say yes...you could use the same skill instead of Proffession Animal Trainer but I would say that the cost difference in price will be majorly different.

This case he would sell a horse for 30 GPs. In the handle Animal Proffession he would have made the horse not only look great but act great and hence sold the horce for 120 instead. The difference is in the showmanship and the minor things (heck I would give the horse a couple extra HP and other bonuses such as a INT a lil higher so he can learn more tricks). A Handle animal check can make a horse ridable. A Profession Animal Trainer makes the horse ridable AND presentable. You can turn a nag into something decent with a good proffession check.

Also...and this may or may not be how it works I would say the Handle Animal checks trains the animal for the PC and the PC only. A horse might not be so eager to listen to someone else. Just a thought.
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