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D&D 3E
Weird one. 
1st-Jun-2006 12:12 am
Logo.
Casting "water walk" on a dire shark. In the situation tonight there were nets above it preventing it reaching the surface. What you you chaps rule? Luckily the spell didn't work tonight, but I had no idea where to take it.
Comments 
31st-May-2006 11:52 pm (UTC)
Well personally I wouldn't give any creature who can't walk (aka legs) the effects of water walk.
1st-Jun-2006 12:01 am (UTC)
That probably makes sense, I certainly wasn't going to have it wandering the surface on it's fins:>

The effect if underwater is to catapult it to
the surface at a speed of 60, which I thought was an interesting way of getting past the shark. The problem being the net in the way; a falling damage equivalent possibly...
1st-Jun-2006 12:16 am (UTC)
There wouldn't be falling damage. The speed is the equivalent of the speed granted from feather fall.
1st-Jun-2006 10:36 am (UTC)
It is constantly pushing it against something fixed though, whereas feather fall is slowing the fall speed.
1st-Jun-2006 02:15 am (UTC)
Just like how you can't cast "Swim" (or whatever the spell is from the Complete Arcane) on a vampire to give it a natural swim speed (for the duration of the spell) and thus make it immune from the normal vampiric tendency to melt in running water.

I was sad when I found out that twink wouldn't work. Ah well.
1st-Jun-2006 02:03 pm (UTC)
I try not to let people use spells in any way other then it's intended. I mean I allow for creativity but if you somehow turn the light spell into a laser beam of death I am constantly saying No to it. No matter how much it "Doesn't say you can't"
1st-Jun-2006 08:18 pm (UTC)
I was upset when the DM didn't let me cast "Create Water" in the ogre's pants. I mean, I was just going for the effect of a Daze spell, which is ALSO a zeroth-level spell. And I thought it was awfully creative.

But you're right about the others.
1st-Jun-2006 08:22 pm (UTC)
Ok thats just funny. I would have allowed it. If it was in combat already I wouldn't have allowed him to be affected much but prior to combat it would have been GREAT! LOL
3rd-Jun-2006 06:54 am (UTC)
But what about creative thinking, and using a spell in a genious way that isn't anywhere near what it was intended for?
3rd-Jun-2006 11:55 am (UTC)
If your using a light spell in any other way but to make light i wont use it. I won't allow someone to turn it into a laser beam.

Good example is the grease spell. My players are...hey Its grease. You can set fire to it. I was like...thats right out because no where in the description does itstate it's flamable grease.

I allow for creative thinking as long as your not using the spells in ways that break the system. It ruins the fun if all of the sudden you combine a spell or 2 to form an effect that will destoy the dungeon that is pent weeks creating.

Spell twinking really takes away from the fun in the long run.
4th-Jun-2006 04:11 pm (UTC)
because no where in the description does itstate it's flamable grease.

Well, nowhere in the description does it say it's grease-as-in-oil-grease. For all we know it could be a slippery pile of gold coins.
4th-Jun-2006 05:59 pm (UTC)
That I can agree with.

But most people see the "Grease" name and they think its flamable. :P
5th-Jun-2006 03:02 pm (UTC)
I won't deny that I've always felt it is. :)

Hmm. Maybe I should have 'Create Water' create some H30 :o
1st-Jun-2006 01:17 am (UTC)
"If the spell is cast underwater (or while the subjects are partially or wholly submerged in whatever liquid they are in), the subjects are borne toward the surface at 60 feet per round until they can stand on it."

Seems pretty self-explanatory. Once the shark gets above the water, you can use the rules for holding ones breath and drowning to find out what happens to it (those are the instructions for aquatic creatures in Stormwrack). I guess you could houserule something about spending an action to try and dip its head below water to breath.
1st-Jun-2006 06:41 am (UTC)
Dipping it's head wouldn't work, as they need forward motion to keep water passing over their gills, as ryukiri mentioned. If it couldn't move forward, it would be stuck.
1st-Jun-2006 12:56 pm (UTC)
I didn't know that. And of course, as it's not listed in the MM, it seems like that's reality intruding on the game again.

So scratch the breathing part. They begin to drown at the top of the water.
3rd-Jun-2006 11:57 am (UTC)
Anonymous
But if the spells says the creature has to stand on the surface....how can a shark stand? I would say that the spell may raise the shark but since it does not have a way to stand on the surface to would then immidiatly sink again.
1st-Jun-2006 03:07 am (UTC)
Well, assuming the shark failed its save, it would rise upwards towards the surface, but first be intercepted by the net.

The problem is, it wouldn't stop the effect of the spell, so it would continue to pull at the net until either the spells duration expired, or the net broke from the constant checks that would (or should) be placed upon it every round using the sharks Str modifier for a Break DC. :]

The only thing I can think of that would present a problem for the shark is: can it continue moving side to side while being pushed against the net? I assume it can thrash around at least a little bit, but my point is that sharks that become tangled in nets die from suffocation. They need to constantly continue moving to pass water through their gills. I doubt that it would suffocate the shark, in all honesty, since the thrashing would allow it some measure of oxygen, but it's still kind of interesting. :]
1st-Jun-2006 10:33 am (UTC)
The other factor I was wondering about is, it has a swim speen of 60 too; so if it made a double move, a charge or a run it would be moving faster than the speed it's being pushed up with. Could it therefore resist being pushed up by swimming against that force, or does it move up no matter how much force it applied?

The constant movement thing depends on species (which is a whole new area of trouble since such things aren't really considered in d+d-personal choice I suppose). Many species have what's refered to as a bucal pump, which means they can force water over their gills while stationary (I've seen this personally, with small shark resting on the sea bed for quite some time); others do have to keep moving though.
1st-Jun-2006 02:03 pm (UTC)
That's true, there are species that do that, but everything is so generalized that it's hard to say whether the standard Shark or Dire Shark is among those. Up to the DM, really.


As for the movement...would it be like the frog in the muddy ditch? :P 2 feet forward, 1 foot back.
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