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D&D 3E
Stacking rules... 
13th-Mar-2006 08:04 pm
MT: The One: Boo
Ok, I'm sure I'm missing this somewhere, but is it possible for a weapon to contain both the qualities Bane: Undead AND Holy? Thus providing a +2 to attack and +4d6 damage to evil undead? Or does the damage not stack?

I'm making a Gnome Dragonborn Cleric that's obsessed with fighting undead (backstory: brought up to help prevent the Age of Worms in Eberron according to the Draconic Prophesy). We're to the point that we've met with Manazorian, and the DM recommended the Dragonborn and gave me free reign within the rules...
Comments 
14th-Mar-2006 02:16 am (UTC)
Being unnamed bonuses, they stack. Also keep in mind that the bane focuses on Undead while the Holy focuses on evil, so they are slightly different effects. Though keep in mind these abilities would be a +3 bonus on the weapon, so it costs something to gain that kind of extra damage. But boy can you smite ;)
14th-Mar-2006 02:24 am (UTC)
Mwa ha ha! That about covers what this guy is supposed to do then. Oh yeah, he's supposed to heal from time to time as well ;-)
14th-Mar-2006 04:01 pm (UTC)
A cleric that heals?!

That's crazy talk.
14th-Mar-2006 08:36 pm (UTC)
Egh, I've known a few that weren't primary healers. Aggrivating? Yes. But, that's how the characters were.
14th-Mar-2006 02:58 am (UTC)
As highbulp said, that weapon would work fine. It IS going to be expensive (+4 equivalent if it's a +1 Holy, Undead Bane weapon)

Also keep in mind that against most foes, it's +1 hit, +1 damage.
Against live Evil creatures, it's +1 hit, +2d6+1 damage.
Against non-Evil Undead (do these exist?), it's +3 hit, +2d6+3 damage.
Against Evil Undead, it's +3 to attack and +4d6+3 damage.

Another good effect to add to the weapon once you can upgrade it more is Magebane, found in Complete Arcane (assuming the DM okays it). It acts like a Bane weapon against anything that uses arcane spells or spell-like abilities, making it extremely effective against liches.

Ghost Touch is also a good idea in case you run into dread wraiths or the like.
14th-Mar-2006 06:23 am (UTC)
you forgot the damage versus:

Evil Dead
Evil Dead 2
Army of Darkness

please list them...
14th-Mar-2006 09:03 am (UTC)
LOL...I don't have the books to do that.
14th-Mar-2006 10:20 am (UTC)
darnit, and I was wondering how the chainsaw melee and the boomstick ranged attack was going to factor into all this ...
14th-Mar-2006 10:42 am (UTC)
Nah, use the shotgun instead ;)
14th-Mar-2006 01:02 pm (UTC)
shotgun = boomstick
15th-Mar-2006 02:09 am (UTC)
Nah, Staff of Evocation = boomstick. (I don't know if these really exist, but my DM made one for me.)
14th-Mar-2006 01:48 pm (UTC)
Evil Dead would qualifiy as Evil Undead in my book.

However, for a Melee Weapon, you would need Cleave/Great Cleave for Evil Dead 2 and the Army of Darkness. Vorpal would work as well.

For Army of Darkness, you could also use the attribute "Stick of Booming" for a Holy Burst that is similiar to Holy, but instead travels in a 20ft spread.

Holy Burst and Great Cleavage only stack if the game is low budget/B-Grade, or intended to be a Hollywood blockbuster.
14th-Mar-2006 03:21 pm (UTC)
non-Evil Undead (do these exist?)

Sort of.

There are the Balenorn (Good aligned Liches -- see the ArchLich from 2nd Ed SpellJammer and Forgotten Realms). There are the Deathless from Eberron. And a few other examples. Usually, they have other types, so it isn't relevant.

Theory also says you could Reedem an intellegent undead (as per Book of Exalted Deeds), use a helm of opposite alignment upon one, etc.



Magebane is so F'ing broken. Ignoring that the description of 'arcane spell like abilities' is also poorly defined. SLA aren't listed as divine, arcane, or other anywhere, a +1 bonus that gives you bane verses all Gnomes (Spell like abilities), Bards, Wizards, Sorcerors, (hexblades, warlocks, etc., etc.), anyone who takes a regional feat that gives them Spell like abilities, many Prestige Classes, many alternate races, most outsiders, etc. is way out of balance. A Bane v gnomes is a +1 enhancement. A Bane against Outsider(Good,Evil,etc) is each a +1 enhancement (True, there are are outsiders without Spell Like abilities, but they're usually the weaker ones). This gets an entire core race, a significant subsections of class levels (1/3 players, maybe), and uses a poorly defined mechanic.


Uh, no.


14th-Mar-2006 03:23 pm (UTC)
Are you the DM for the game in question?
14th-Mar-2006 05:24 pm (UTC)
No.

That was just my rant against Magebane.

(If Magebane was a +2 enhancement, AND it was only 2d6 damage like Holy/unhold, not also a +2 to hit/damage, I'd probably allow it in my games. Certainly not as-written.)
14th-Mar-2006 06:20 pm (UTC)
non-Evil Undead (do these exist?)

Sort of.

There are the Balenorn (Good aligned Liches -- see the ArchLich from 2nd Ed SpellJammer and Forgotten Realms). There are the Deathless from Eberron. And a few other examples. Usually, they have other types, so it isn't relevant.

Theory also says you could Reedem an intellegent undead (as per Book of Exalted Deeds), use a helm of opposite alignment upon one, etc.


You forgot an Emancipated Spawn (Savage Species) who regained his/her past.
15th-Mar-2006 02:11 am (UTC)
I think zombies and other non-intelligent undead are neutral...could be wrong, though. Could be dead wrong.

:-D

Also, I imagine a goodly number of clerics/etc of Wee Jas are neutral. Lichdom shouldn't really change this. (At least in my world, it doesn't.) (I'm very sympathetic to the undead.)
15th-Mar-2006 11:43 am (UTC)
All undead are evil, according to the D&D rules. As for lichdom changing the alignment of a cleric of Wee Jas, well, I quote from the SRD:

"The process of becoming a lich is unspeakably evil and can be undertaken only by a willing character."

Your campaign world is another matter - if changing something makes more sense for your game, then it is right and good to make that change.
15th-Mar-2006 10:58 pm (UTC)
Oh, that's right! I forgot about the "unspeakably evil" part. Bah.

Your campaign world is another matter - if changing something makes more sense for your game, then it is right and good to make that change.

You're entirely right--this is something that I'm having a hard time accepting. I'm not a DM at the moment, but I ran a campaign last year that would have been so much simpler if I had just said "Because I said so--that's how it works in this world" about one or two things.
15th-Mar-2006 02:08 am (UTC)
Even better: Add "Sacred Burst" from the Libris Mortis. Something about an extra d6 against undead/evil outsiders and an extra d10 on a critical? Something like that? Maybe 2d6 vs evil outsiders?

::drool::
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