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D&D 3E
Dragon Disciple size increase 
10th-Feb-2006 09:44 am
Quick question.

I'm creating a lizardfolk Dragon Disciple... When the Dragon Disciple gains a size category (I don't have to books here, so I don't remember the level), does he get all the bonuses associated with going from medium to large -- as decribed in the monster manual section on advancement? This is something like +8str and +4con (again, no books, but you get the idea).

The DD class gets a few decent con and str bonuses as they level up, so the massive str and con increase for the size category seems odd to me. Do these smaller increases take the place of the size category increases? Or does a dragon disciple just become very, very strong?
10th-Feb-2006 06:11 pm (UTC)

As far as I can see, at no time does the Dragon Disciple gain a size category.
10th-Feb-2006 06:13 pm (UTC)
I'm using the Tome & Blood manual. He gains a size categroy. That SRD description is different in several aspects.
10th-Feb-2006 06:16 pm (UTC)
My general feel would be no. When you up the size of someone through Enlarge Person, they don't get the MM bonuses either. I'd really only use those for monsters I was advancing.
10th-Feb-2006 06:53 pm (UTC)
I don't recall the Dragon Disciple gaining a size increase. Wings, yes, size up, no.

Then again, if you're using the one from Tome & Blood, it's entirely possible.

Anyway, I would say: no. It would make it entirely too obscene. It would total to a (rough estimate) +12 to +16 Str boost, and almost the same for Con. The current stats boosts are more than enough for anybody. Becoming not only Meta-Human, but Double Human seems a little bit much for one PrC whose prerequisits for entry aren't much...much...MUCH higher.
10th-Feb-2006 11:31 pm (UTC)
Actually, in 3.0 the DDs DID get a size increase. The thought was that the character was slowly evolving into a dragon so he would grow in size until he became a full fledged dragon. That was nixed when people who couldn't think for themselves wanted to change it in 3.5 without really looking at the Epic DDs. In all honesty, I plaued a DDs for my first character as a 3.X and my DM waived the rule about no size increase because it was dumb to get rid of the rule.

It is a play by ear rule though.
10th-Feb-2006 06:53 pm (UTC)
"The change in size affects the dargon disciple's base claw and bite damage (see above). In addition, he gains -1 size modifier to his base attack bonus and Armor Class." (Tome and Blood, pg. 57)

My reading of that is they don't gain an stat changes from the size increase.
10th-Feb-2006 11:32 pm (UTC)
Yes, you are right... But you also have to keep in mind that TB is a 3.0 book, while the 3.5 DDs is in the DMG. So, if you are playing a 3.0 DDs and/or you got special instructions from the DM to use it then you are good. If not, then you have to figure in the size change into the 3.5 version.
10th-Feb-2006 11:36 pm (UTC)
The "size" increase was parsled out over the levels, but because people couldn't figure that out they had to change it to "make sense". As you can tell, I am a titch bit bitter about this.
11th-Feb-2006 12:47 am (UTC)
The updated version of the Dragon Disciple does not gain a size category. The 3.5 trumps Tome and Blood in every respect to the rules.
19th-Feb-2006 03:45 am (UTC)
unless your DM is running a 3.0 campaign, of course. Or house ruling it.
19th-Feb-2006 04:00 am (UTC)
Well that'd be a silly thing for them to do.
20th-Feb-2006 04:05 am (UTC)
11th-Feb-2006 03:59 am (UTC)
As I recall, the bonuses you gain from size increase have more to do with monsters gaining Hit Dice than, say, class levels. So it makes sense for that 20 Hit Dice Gargantuan Tendriculos to be stronger and tougher than your average 9 Hit Dice Huge Tendriculos. Class levels come with their own benefits, such as increased spellcasting, uncanny dodge, bonus feats, and so on.
11th-Feb-2006 01:37 pm (UTC)
Gaining a size category sorta made sense, as only Large half-dragons have wings, but it seems they don't want to make large characters quite so common in 3.5 and I really can't blame them.
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