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D&D 3E
Quick question. 
7th-Dec-2005 09:33 am
bitch
Does force damage ignore DR?
Comments 
7th-Dec-2005 05:39 pm (UTC)
As far as I'm aware, yes.

Force isn't a 'physical' damage type (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) and thus isn't subject to DR.
7th-Dec-2005 05:41 pm (UTC)
Snippeted from the SRD.


A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.


Emphasis mine.
7th-Dec-2005 05:42 pm (UTC)
Damage reduction does not effect energy damage.

from the srd: "Damage Reduction
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities."


7th-Dec-2005 06:08 pm (UTC)
According to the rules, yes, it does.

However, the description and idea of [force] seems to suggest that it is a disembodied physical force (for example: being punched by a fist that isn't there). I think that allowing DR to affect [force] effects is a logical house rule if you like it that way. I'd just be careful, and create some alternatives for basics that rely on force damage, like magic missile. This avoids giving DR too large of an intended boost.
7th-Dec-2005 06:19 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure if I'd go for that. If you start treating it as a physical force, one could (in theory) shape the force effect (with feats or whatever) to do slashing, bludgeon, or piercing damage, which could make force effects better against certain monsters...

... hmm, that's actually an interesting idea.
7th-Dec-2005 06:51 pm (UTC)
nothing beats Magic Missle!

Speaking of force damage, I remember a 2nd ed spell called "Lance of Disruption"... I need to bring that up to date for 3.5... that was a nice spell...

2nd ed version:

Lance of Disruption (Invocation/Evocation, Elemental Air, Force) 3rd
Range: 0
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
Casting Time: 3
Area of Effect: 5 feet x 60 feet
Saving Throw: 1/2
Subtlety: +2
Knockdown: d10
Sensory: Huge audio vibration
Critical: Medium (1 hit)
This spell creates a beam of concussive, disrupting force that lashes out from the wizard's hand in a path 5 feet wide and 60 feet long. Any creatures caught in the beam's path suffer 5d4 points of damage, plus 2 points of damage per caster level (maximum damage is 5d4+30); for example, a 6th?level wizard would inflict 5d4+12 damage with the lance of disruption. Victims are allowed a saving throw vs. spell for half damage. The lance's energy delivers a powerful blow against inanimate objects and can easily blast light furniture, thin wooden walls, or fragile stonework to flinders. Barred wooden doors can be blasted of their hinges and even sturdy iron-bound doors or heavy stonework can be seriously damaged by the lance of disruption.
Creatures with amorphous or nonsolid bodies, such as fire or air elementals and some oozes and slimes, are resistant to the lance's effects and only sustain half damage, or one-quarter damage with a successful save.

oooh.. found a conversion for it and a few others at enworld... http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-33557.html

LANCE OF DISRUPTION
Evocation [Force]
Level: Wiz/Sor 3
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60’
Area: Line 5’ high x5’ wide x60’ long
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A lance of disruption is a beam of concussive force that lashes out from your hand in a path five feet wide and 60’ long. The lance deals 5d4+2/level hp of damage (max of 5d4+20). You may choose to deal subdual damage rather than real damage with your lance of disruption. A lance of disruption ignores all object hardness.

Although, the one thing I would change about the lance of disruption is the area. What I envision is a smaller piercing beam of force, say 5" wide or even smaller, not a huge blast 5' wide (thats pretty big when you think about it... a normal house doorway is MAYBE 3' wide)
7th-Dec-2005 06:15 pm (UTC)
yes it does - which makes the 'Force Missile Mage' prestige class from Dragon #326 all the more appealing...

:o)
Dan
7th-Dec-2005 06:46 pm (UTC)
OMG, I just bought that issue off of ebay and got it the other night and I was reading that. Interesting prestige class.
7th-Dec-2005 07:12 pm (UTC)
yup yup, the extra missiles, and feats make it... by 5th level in it (caster level 9 probably), you have a spell that (at first level) with do up to 7d4 damage, bypassing DR, SR, and spells designed to defeat it (shield, brooch of shielding, etc...) then add in the energy sub possibilities onto that at no cost...

And if you're a sorcerer... it's very very cool class for blasting things.

:o)
Dan
7th-Dec-2005 06:21 pm (UTC)
in most cases yes. I've never seen a creature with DR Force
7th-Dec-2005 07:05 pm (UTC)
It would be Force Resistance if it existed. DR /Force would be DR *bypassed* by Force mand be inconsistent with how the other energy types are handled.
7th-Dec-2005 06:46 pm (UTC)
I'm fairly certain.

On a related question, isn't there a "Force Substitution" feat? I seem to remember seeing it somewhere.
7th-Dec-2005 06:47 pm (UTC)
I wouldn't mind knowing where that's at, but I've never seen it.
7th-Dec-2005 08:10 pm (UTC)
I don't see one (I just ran through the Crystal Keep Feat index)... I think it'd make a decent feat tho... you'd have to assign some limits to it to keep it from being overpowering.

Force Substitution
You can substitute pure force to energy spells you cast.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (arcana) 7 ranks, Energy Substitution.
Benefit: You can modify any spell with an energy descriptor in which you have the Energy Substitution feat into a Force effect. A Force substituted spell uses a spell slot 1 level higher than the original spell and the damage range is reduced by one die type - for example, a Fireball composed of Force energy cast by a 7th level Wizard with the Energy Substitution [fire] feat would take up a 4th level spell slot and would deal 7d4 points of damage and would be considered an evocation [force] spell.
Special: This feat can only be gained once, however characters gaining the ability to substitute spells to additional energy types by gaining the Energy Substitution feat multiple times would be able to modify their spells with those additional energy types.

just my first thought... with both the die reduction or boosted character level it might be underpowered, but I figure with it having the 'force' effects (overcoming DR, insubstantial foes, etc...) it evens out.

thoughts? actually I i'll post it up... get some more feedback.

:o)
Dan

7th-Dec-2005 08:19 pm (UTC)
MAybe make it available only to members of the Argent Savant class?
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