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D&D 3E
Want an opinion on a couple of questions 
29th-Jun-2005 04:02 pm
reaper card
1) Does the Crippling Strike extraordinary ability of the Rogue stack with the Crippling Strike extraordinary ability of the Justiciar, if the Rogue/Justiciar is using a sap? I would think so since one arises from sneak attacking a target and the other arises from doing non-lethal damage to the target.

2) Is the sap able to be changed into adamantine, silver or cold iron? Common saps today are a metal piece (typically lead) wrapped in leather. In addition, are any of the magical enhancements (other than keen) unavailable to the sap, i.e. wounding, flaming or mighty cleaving? Would the flaming enhancement do non-lethal damage?

Thanks in advance.
29th-Jun-2005 08:15 pm (UTC)
1) Don't know the Justicar class well enough to answer.

2) You can change its type using a spell, certainly. However, a silver weapon needs to be hitting with the silver part to be effective. If you wrap a piece of silver in leather, it isn't doing silver typed damage.

Nothing, however, stops you from otherwise enchanting your Masterwork Sap. If you add to it something that does damage (other than the enhancement), that damage is typed normally (Viscious does 2d6 normal damage, flaming burst does 1d6 fire, etc.). it does not default to 'non-lethal'.

29th-Jun-2005 08:51 pm (UTC)
1. I think that it would not stack, since the ability is of the same name. That is of course, unless it says it stacks with certain other things.

There is an enchantment called Merciful, it adds 1d6 damage and converts ALL damage done by that weapon into Non-Lethal
29th-Jun-2005 09:11 pm (UTC)
1) I would argue that they do stack, since the damage type is unnamed. Of course, I'm not sure if the same rules apply to ability damage. The name of the ability has absolutely nothing to do with whether it stacks.
29th-Jun-2005 11:05 pm (UTC)
1) I'd think they would stack. There just aren't enough names to cover every special ability, so I wouldn't worry about that. The descriptions are different enough that I'd allow it.

2) I'd let you make a sap out of silver or other metals. It was also traditional to use wooden pegs as saps, so why not metal?
30th-Jun-2005 12:19 am (UTC)
1)The crippling strike of the rogue hits so as to remove a point of strength. The Justicar ability if I remember is similar. So honestly I'd say the two won't stack, because the effect is the pretty much the same. But I would have to see the Justicar again to know for sure.
2)Wounding can't be put on a sap, because wounding requires that you actually cut the person for the wound to continue to bleed. To figure out if it could apply to a sap, you should check and see if the ability actually says yes or no to bludgeoning weapons being able to have it.
30th-Jun-2005 05:34 am (UTC)
Ever seen two boxer's from the 1970's?

(blunt force cause you to bleed, trust me :P)

30th-Jun-2005 07:35 am (UTC)
I said it might have to inflict a cut, not cause bleeding. Some abilities are restricted to slashing weapons only. I just checked, and wounding is not restricted, so unless your dm argues the fact then yes it can be applied to a sap.
30th-Jun-2005 01:55 pm (UTC)
I'm of the opinion that the Crippling Strike abilities stack. I don't have the Justicar on hand, but I do know that the Rogue ability causes ability damage. It's not a penalty. I'd say it should work the same way that a rogue's sneak attack damage stacks with his weapon damage.
30th-Jun-2005 08:20 pm (UTC)
1) No, because they are the same ability. It's the same way that Evasion from Rogue and Evasion from Shadowndancer don't stack.

2) I would rule no. However, there's always the posibility of creating new special materials (silverweave, for example) to compensate for this if the DM wishes. I would also rule that magical enhancements could be applied to the sap, but would be pretty pointless as they would deal normal (or elemental) damage.

The entire point of the rules being in place is to prevent unbalance and unrealism (relative to the fantasy world, at least, where basic laws of physics and chemistry, ie. fire burns, still apply).
19th-Jul-2005 08:38 pm (UTC)
1) I would rule No. They have the same name. They do the same thing. Unless they state they are different damage type (One is magic the other is a normal type of thing).

2) I can see it being made from different medals but I dont think that would change anything. After all a sap has to be flexable so the entire thing can not be made of steel but you can use different metals inside if you want (Though it wouldnt cut through DR). As for magical bonuses...sure why not. The damage that would be inflicted by flaming would be normal damage though.
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