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D&D 3E
Two issues... 
22nd-Apr-2005 12:53 pm
fox
1. Take a look at the Lycanthrope section of the Monstrous manual. CAn you honestly tell me that a werewolf/wereboar/wererat are anywhere near as powerful as a werebear or a weretiger? I think these must be seperated or at least taken individually.

2. Can you perform a trip as an attack of opportunity? How about a disarm/grapple?

Please site sources for the second one if you have them.
Comments 
22nd-Apr-2005 05:10 pm (UTC)
1) Not sure what you're saying here. Yes, some are more powerful than others. That's why their CRs are higher.

2) Yes, but only under the proper circumstances. An AoO is defined as "a single melee attack." Trip states that you may attempt a trip "as an unarmed melee attack." Beginning a grapple requires "a successful melee attack roll." As both of these are considered melee attacks, you can attempt them any time you make a melee attack--including as an AoO.

However, you don't threaten the squares around you when you're unarmed, unless you have natural weapons or Improved Unarmed Strike. So you can only make a grapple as an AoO if you have one or the other; and you can only trip as an AoO if you have one or the other, or if you have a weapon you can trip with.
22nd-Apr-2005 05:16 pm (UTC)
2) Check out the WotC website. The answer is yes, you can perform any 'attack' action as an AoO. Trip, Grapple, Disarm (which is the classical one from swashbuckling), and (in 3.5, where it is an attack action rather than a standard) sunder.

Its covered by Skip Williams in his answer column.

1) Wererats are CR2, Werewolves CR3, Wereboars 4, Werebears & Weretigers 5
Whats the problem? Admittedly, they are all ECL3. WHich is probably a problem, but if you're letting your PCs play races with ECLs greater than 2, you have bigger problems than the Weretiger PC outclassing the Wererat PC.
22nd-Apr-2005 05:25 pm (UTC)
But you can't make a Trip as the Aoo caused by someone standing up.

22nd-Apr-2005 05:40 pm (UTC)
Standing up from a prone position does not incur and attack of opportunity I believe....
22nd-Apr-2005 06:02 pm (UTC)
Actually, it does. But according to the FAQ, the AoO it draws cannot be used to trip, because the person isn't actually on his feet yet at the time the AoO occurs.
22nd-Apr-2005 07:35 pm (UTC)
The way that I remember this is

"If your AoO happened AFTER the thing that provoked it, you wouldn't be able to attack people leaving areas you threaten unless you had Reach!"
22nd-Apr-2005 06:39 pm (UTC)













Move Action Attack of
Opportunity1
Move Yes
Control a frightened mount Yes
Direct or redirect an active spell No
Draw a weapon4 No
Load a hand crossbow or light crossbow Yes
Open or close a door No
Mount a horse or dismount No
Move a heavy object Yes
Pick up an item Yes
Sheathe a weapon Yes
Stand up from prone Yes</b>
Ready or loose a shield4 No
Retrieve a stored item Yes
22nd-Apr-2005 05:26 pm (UTC)
Ah, but they're not all ECL 3. They've got a +3 level adjustment, but you add level adjustment to hit dice to get ECL. Thus, since the tougher ones have higher hit dice, they're a higher ECL than the weaker ones.

So, still no problem with the werebear vs. werewolf. :)
22nd-Apr-2005 05:40 pm (UTC)
Adding their relevant modifiers, a werewolf gets a +26 (i think) total ability score modifier, while a werewolf gets +14. For reference a weretiger I think gets +22.

Werebears also get improved grab, while weretigers get not only improved grab, but pounce and rake as well as two claw attacks.

"Wererats are CR2, Werewolves CR3, Wereboars 4, Werebears & Weretigers 5"

I'm not sure I understand this. According to the monster manual they are all a +3 level adjustment...
22nd-Apr-2005 06:00 pm (UTC)
Level adjustment, equivalent character level, and challenge rating aren't the same thing.

CR measures how tough they are to face in a single combat, and how much XP players get for taking them on.

ECL measures how powerful they are as PCs. For instance, the werebear presented in the Monster Manual has 7 hit dice and a +3 level adjustment. It is therefore ECL 10, or equivalent (if used as a PC) to a 10th-level character.

LA represents special abilities, and is the number you add to the creature's hit dice to get total ECL.

So yes, the lycanthropes are all LA +3. But because they have different hit dice, they're a different total ECL. And because some are tougher than others, they have different CRs. Level Adjustment has no direct relationship to CR, though creatures with higher CRs will tend to have higher LAs as well.
22nd-Apr-2005 06:09 pm (UTC)
Oh. So you must include the hit dice then? Is there no way to make it a template like in 3.0?
22nd-Apr-2005 06:13 pm (UTC)
It is a template. But you have to include the HD of both the person to which it's attached, and the animal they turn into.

The examples in the book all use a 1-HD human. If the example was instead, say, a 4th-level fighter, the total ECL on the werebear would be 13. (4 HD from fighter, plus 6 HD from bear, plus level adjustment 3.)
22nd-Apr-2005 06:19 pm (UTC)
oh I see.. so my +3 wolf with 1hd of human and 1 hd of wolf will be the equivalent of a lvl 5 being. Then if I give him a level of say druid, he will be a level 6 person? (it was so much easier in 3.0)
22nd-Apr-2005 06:25 pm (UTC)
That's it exactly. :-)

And actually, it worked the same way in 3.0. They just didn't explain it in the Monster Manual. You had to buy separate books like Savage Species.
22nd-Apr-2005 06:30 pm (UTC)
One more. My level 6 character (werewolf/human/druid 1) would have 2d8 hit points or 4d8 hit points (ie does the template add any hit dice?)
22nd-Apr-2005 06:54 pm (UTC)
2D8. The LA doesn't come with free hit dice. You have to pay for those with increased ECL.
22nd-Apr-2005 09:18 pm (UTC)
The "wolf" half of the werewolf template gives you 2d8. So you have 3d8: 2d8 for wolf, and 1d8 for druid.
22nd-Apr-2005 05:37 pm (UTC)
LA 3......... plus the hit die from the animal? Don't forget that part. the hit die actually /do/ contribute to your overall ECL
22nd-Apr-2005 06:13 pm (UTC)
As PCs, wereanimals can also be handled as a monster class...all the wereanimals were split out as monster classes in a Dragon magazine a year or so ago. The tiger is, I think, a 9-level monster class, meaning you must take *all 9 levels* of weretiger before you take your first level in any other class...or if you pick up the monster class in-play, that you must work up all 9 levels of weretiger before you can go back to whatever class you were working on before.

Now werewolf is a 4 or 5 level class...and wererat is a 3-level class, using that system. So by the time your weretiger is an 11th level character (9 levels of weretiger and 2 of oh, say, fighter), that same wererat is an 11th level character like so (3 levels of wererat and 8 levels of, say, rogue...that's some serious backstab damage there!). It does even out...not to mention that a little bitty wharf rat is far more likely to go unnoticed in a city than the 600-pound man-eating tiger is. :)
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