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D&D 3E
CR opinion. 
3rd-Mar-2005 06:13 pm

Cave Troll
Huge Giant
Hit Dice: 24d8+ 144 (252 HP)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +16 natural), touch 7, flat footed 23
Basse Attack/Grapple: +18/+35
Attack: Greatclub +25 melee (3d8+13/19-20) or slam +25 melee (2d6+9)
Full Attack: Greatclub +25/+20/+15 melee (3d8+13/19-20) or 2 slams +25 melee (2d6+9)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Trample 2d6+13
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Darkvision – 60 ft.
Saves: Fort +21, Ref +6, Will +6
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 8, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 8, Cha 6
Skills: +36 Climb
Feats: Ability Focus (Trample), Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Improved Natural Attack, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical: Greatclub
Environment: Caves
Organization: Solitary or 1 per 200 Goblins or 1 per 100 Orcs
Challenge Rating: 12
Treasure: 1/10 coins
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: 28 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

I apologize for the formatting; I typed this up in word, where everything is formatted exactly like in the MM, but the copy job ruined it, and admittedly I'm too lazy to go back through and fix it all. Anyway, for the real point, do you think the CR is appropriate? I realize the hit points seem a tad high, and perhaps the damage too, especially with the trample. I also realize the treasure is absolutely terrible, but that one I'm sure I like. Really I tried to balance the hard hitting and the HP excess with the fact that the Reflex saves and AC are utterly terrible. A mid level spell with a Reflex save has a good chance of owning the thing. Any fighter at 12th level should have no problem hitting with his primary and probably secondary attacks, even his third, if he's properly equipped, has a more than reasonable chance to hit. The other thing is, even enough low to mid level foes could play hit and run for a couple hours and take one down. That said, I'm still not sure if the CR is exactly where it should be. I thought about giving it DR 5/-, but that combined with the masses of hit points seemed excessive. It also takes away the possibility of poking it to death with arrows over a long period of time.

And, sorry for the rambling, but a little background may help you see what I was thinking as I did it. Thanks for any comments. I'll try and answer any questions...if there are any.
4th-Mar-2005 03:47 am (UTC)
Hmmm, have you checked the back of the Monster Manual? I don't mean to say that to be sarcastic. I'd guess around 11. Though I have no real way of knowing for sure. I think that adding DR 5/- would totally nerf this thing. Normally it might take awhile to take him down, but adding the DR will make it take forever. Unless your party has lots of spell casters or people who can use wands/scrolls. Magic going through DR and all. True the reflex and will are low, which is usual for the giant type.

I thought you had to be a fighter to get Imp. Critical. Unless you are either playing in 3.0, or are giving him a special ability.

The hit points can be dealt with easily, even with a fighter. Since a lot of fighters who use melee also power attack. And with a two-handed weapon in 3.5, it'll be easy.

CR is really just a guideline. Nothing set in stone. The only way you'll really know is to run it. If you keep your players sheets between sessions, make a mock battle. or design various groups of characters to fight it. If group 1, made of 8th level characters gets owned, use a group of 10th or whatever.

I wrote alot, wow. Hope some of this helps
4th-Mar-2005 04:20 am (UTC)
I was following the back of the MM pretty closely...but I kinda think I went rather high on some of the stuff. And you don't need to be a Fighter for Improved Crit, you just need proficiency and a +8 BAB. Improved Focus and Specialization are the Fighter ones.

And the running it thing...I ran it against a couple 4 NPC parties straight from the DMG, and depending on dice rolls, they either annihilated it quickly, efficiently, and simply, or it smashed two of them to bits. Really it was coming down to the Init rolls.
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