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D&D 3E
Monster non-favoured class CR 
18th-Jan-2005 02:29 pm
I cant remember where I came across this (I'm guessing Savage Species), but can anyone remind me of the guidelines for adjustments to the CR of monsters who take levels in a class that they would not normally be readily suited for - e.g. a Hill Giant Wiz1 is less formidable than a Hill Giant Ftr1.?

18th-Jan-2005 02:42 pm (UTC)
I don't recall seeing any rules like that in Savage Species, but I have the first printing.

A Hill Giant Wiz 1 might not necessarily be less formidable, though - the HG's lack of intelligence only comes into play when the Wiz levels are high enough that his int. score prevents him from casting spells he has access to.
18th-Jan-2005 03:18 pm (UTC)
The point is that the class does not build on or enhance any of the monster's inherent abilities. Instead of a Hill Giant with +1 to hit and probably Weapon Focus: Really Big Stick, you now have a Hill Giant who can throw a single magic missile at something, whoop-de-frickin'-doo. Why would he cast a level 1 spell when he could use that action to smack you for 2D8+a lot?
It breaks down a little when you're adding a lot of class levels - a Hill Giant who can cast fly is probably comparable to a Hill Giant with Weapon Specialization: Really Big Stick.

I think I've read these rules you refer to, which suggests they're in the 3.5 MM or DMG, not Savage Species, since I don't have a copy of that. (So, what jhubert said).
18th-Jan-2005 03:26 pm (UTC)
Remember that the intelligence modifier influences the DCs of his spells as well.

That would be a serious career mistake for a Hill Giant, though... But I could see it. "I wanna be a wizurd!!"
18th-Jan-2005 02:51 pm (UTC)
I'm pretty sure they are either in the 3.5 DMG or MM. When I get home, I'll check.
18th-Jan-2005 04:21 pm (UTC)
If a class would compliment the abilities of the monestwer add +1 CR, otherwise add +.5 CR until the class levels = the Hit dice of the monster then start adding +1 CR.

I read it either in the DMG, MM II, or MM. forget which
19th-Jan-2005 02:40 am (UTC)
Wizard class to monestwer: "Why, you're looking especially fierce today."

Monestwer's reply: "Why, thank you very much! I think I'll take a level in you!" (assuming a monestwer can take class levels, whatever it is)
18th-Jan-2005 06:47 pm (UTC)
3.5 Monster Manual, pg 294, Nonassociated Class Level:

If you add a class level that doesn't directly play to a creature's strength (such as adding a sorcerer level to a frost giant), the class level is consider nonassociated, and things get more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similiar one is considered associated and increases the monster's CR by 1.

There's bunch of other info in there, including how to determine whehter a class is associated.
19th-Jan-2005 02:41 am (UTC)
a frost giant sorcerer/fighter would be evil. True Strike, then a charging Power Attack for every point possible...*shudders*
18th-Jan-2005 09:38 pm (UTC)
It may be a dellusional Hill Giant to take levels of Wizard, but hey...at least he'll be interesting, right? Right.

All the above info looks pretty much like what I was going to say, so I won't repeat it. :P
19th-Jan-2005 09:24 am (UTC)
Or a Hill Giant geased to train as a wizard...

Thanks all for the info
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