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D&D 3E
6th-May-2003 05:47 pm
SO would any DMs here actually let their players play a half dragon man or a pixie? I was reading the monsterous character book thingie... and yeah. I don't think any DM would let some random fire giant play with a bunch of normal characters.
7th-May-2003 05:05 am (UTC) - I'd allow it.
Savage Species kind of does away with ECLs. A 1st level Fire Giant is equal to a 1st level Fighter or 1st level Rogue (maybe even a little weaker).

The point of Savage Species is that the 'monster race' characters sacrifice multiclassing and only get their abilities gradually. The 'Fire Giant' class as an example only gives you the following:

1st level: size medium, HD: 1d8, BAB: +0, Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +0; skill points: (2+Int Mod)x4, Fire subtype, 1 feat, +2 natural armor, +4 Str

That's not exactly "out of control". It doesn't even get to reach size large until 11th level. Granted- by that time, it's packed on another +8 Strength, +6 natural armor. But by that time- it's on par with an 11th level character.

I worked out some monster classes on my website if your'e curious:
Here's a class for gargoyle characters. Here's a Gargoyle NPC, Tharnok of the Chasm.

I've also done class writeups for Silver Dragon Characters and Red Dragon characters, as well as a quicky page of Dark Denizens for my Oathbound campaign (Drow, Tieflings and Grimlocks). People tend to think twice about playing a drow when they realize it only gets it's first HD for the duration of it's three levels. (it gets 8 hp for it's fitrst level and never gets to roll for hit points again until it reaches 3rd level and multiclasses out of being a drow).

8th-May-2003 09:49 pm (UTC) - Re: I'd allow it.
I purchased the savage species book when it came out, and found it to be rather worthless. I mean, it's interesting, but, I consider it inconsistent with the reality of the game world. Essentially, it's saying that for a race to have its racial traits, it must be classed, or that, it's getting larger as it trains more. Which, from my standpoint smacks of irregularity. Either a race has traits that are inherent, or they don't. Growing in skill (ie leveling) should have no bearing on gaining more strength or more reach. It bothers me.

I'm sticking with normal ECL rules.
9th-May-2003 07:22 am (UTC) - Re: I'd allow it.
Well.. hmm. I don't see it that way.

I guess it's a simulation type argument- I'm putting my priorities on how I can make the race available to the player and then have it work with everything else rather than on whether it's a good simulation. (And with a lot of monsters- daragons and gargoyles- it kinda makes sense that they would start small and then grow larger).
It's also just a practical thing- I'm never going to have to explain the races that aren't being used, just the ones that players want to use.

Did you buy it at Star? I noticed you were in Lubbock. I actually lived there from 1986-1994 or so.
9th-May-2003 10:26 pm (UTC) - Re: I'd allow it.
For the monster growing into larger sizes, that only makes sense by AGE, not by levels. Heck, most of the time I can run a whole lvl 1 party to level 20 within 6 months of in-game time due to the excessively active campaigns I create. So, a dragon, or giant, both of whom have exceptionally long lives to begin with, would grow from nothing, into full adult strength? It's ludicrous.

::shrugs:: Again, a reason for me to just be smart and keep my PCs in mind and stick to ECL.

As for Stars, I've never heard of it. We've got a locally owned store called Mad Hatter's.
10th-May-2003 06:51 am (UTC) - Re: I'd allow it.
Well.. it's not that ludicrous. Again- it depends on whether you prioritize simulation over gameplay (which I don't). A character growing from an adolecent giant to a full grown one in 6 months of campaign (which might represent.. lets say.. a year of 'game time') may not be a very good simulation. But it does work fine as far as the game is concerned, because the added hit dice and abilities coincide with the level increase- and that works. It's mechanicaly sound.

And if I need to, I can just say "he hit puberty that year". Medium sized covers all the way up to 8'. Large covers from 8' and one inch, so you could just have a character grow an inch taller and then be in the new size category. I did something similar with the gargoyle having a 'molting period'. Similar ideas for a dragon. I can see a dragon increasing in size fairly rapidly, though.

Mad Hatter's is still around? That's awesome! I knew the owner (Robert Guimbleot) when he was an undergrad at Texas Tech. He was known for actually wearing a top hat around the dorm and telling everyone to "smile". Star Books and Comics was the other gaming store in town- I can't remember the street names anymore- I want to say 34th and Q.
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