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D&D 3E
so... in talking to some of the players in my group i have decided… 
14th-Dec-2004 05:23 pm
boke1
so... in talking to some of the players in my group i have decided that i will start my pc at 6th level, but as a first level bard. when i join in he'll be a 5th level fighter and a 1st level bard, a 6th level character matched with theirs. since i plan to play him as a bard, i'm tailoring his fighter levels to suit that and making him a knife fighter. he's human, so by 6th level he should have 6 feats, or so, i can't remember the rules exactly, but between the fighter class and the bonus feats he should be sitting pretty. anyway, i'm probably pulling a combo of some/all/most of these feats:
point blank shot
precise shot
rapid shot
weapon focus (dagger)
weapon specialization (dagger)
weapon finesse
far shot

there is only one problem with what i plan to do, as i see it, a dagger does 1d4 damage. i don't anticipate having a very good STR bonus for damage, if i roll three high scores they'll go to CHA, DEX, and INT, i usually don't roll more than 3 high scores. some of the feats improve damage. still, 1d4.

so i should be hitting pretty often and pretty consistently, with a high dex and the above feats. but damage... other than weapon specialization, which will give me +2 damage, is there anything i can do to improve my damage? i suppose of i have a moderately high str and get a +1 bonus i'd have 1d4+3 damage, with two attacks every round so a potential of 2d4+6, 14 damage max, double on a crit. still, not great. any ideas for how to improve my knife fighter?
Comments 
14th-Dec-2004 10:40 pm (UTC)
A wounding, returning dagger perhaps?
14th-Dec-2004 10:45 pm (UTC)
with the angle you're taking, it sounds more like you should go rogue instead of bard, getting the sneak attack advantage. why bard?
14th-Dec-2004 10:48 pm (UTC)
because i've never played one before, and the party has a rogue.
15th-Dec-2004 12:16 am (UTC)
Two-weapon fighting would give you twice the mileage from your "Weapon *" feats.

You should have seven feats, not six.
1st level feat plus one for human=2
Fighter bonus at one, two and four.=3
Level related feats at three and six.=2
15th-Dec-2004 12:23 am (UTC)
Yeah, two-weapon fighting is much better. And with daggers, you can use an off-handed throw to make a second missile attack with the same minus as rapid shot, so you don't know that (I think so anyway).

But as someone said before, the best way to get damage out of a dagger is with sneak-attack. Daggers don't do much damage, that's why people use long-swords instead of daggers.
15th-Dec-2004 12:58 am (UTC)
But if this character had Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Specialisation and no damage bonus for STR, they would do the same criticals and average damage as a greatsword (9), (assuming they hit with both: they would get that 9 less often than with the greatsword but will do some damage much more often) plus all the advantages of two daggers (splitting attacks against different targets, piercing as well as slashing, fighting in enclosed spaces, concealability, throwing).

Bit of a waste of all those martial weapon and shield proficiencies though. And sucks against DR. A better choice for a straight Bard maybe.





15th-Dec-2004 01:09 am (UTC) - Two-weapon fighting would give you twice the mileage from your "Weapon *" feats
how so? i plan on avoiding melee combat for the most part.
15th-Dec-2004 01:19 am (UTC) - Re: Two-weapon fighting would give you twice the mileage from your "Weapon *" feats
and you pumped five fighter levels into him why? Make him a Cleric/bard if you wanna turtle. If it's range you're hoping for, why not take longbow feats rather than dagger? Saves you the finesse at least.
15th-Dec-2004 01:24 am (UTC) - Re: Two-weapon fighting would give you twice the mileage from your "Weapon *" feats
Because you would apply them twice as often.
If you are avoiding melee, you may want to rethink your choice of classes.
15th-Dec-2004 01:59 am (UTC)
if i take rapid shot and two weapon fighting, does that mean i can throw two daggers with each hand each round?
15th-Dec-2004 02:02 am (UTC)
or... does it mean i'd get three? two with my main hand and one with my off hand? each feat says i get one extra attack.

RAPID SHOT [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point Blank Shot.
Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.
Special: A fighter may select Rapid Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats.
A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the archery combat style is treated as having Rapid Shot, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING [GENERAL]
You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon.
Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)
Special: A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.

15th-Dec-2004 02:19 am (UTC)
Combat Reflexes, Dodge, and Mobility are good if your Dex is high enough. Depending on the style of battles, Expertise and Close Quarters Combat are good too. And Improved Initiative never hurts!

Are you allowed magic items? An energy effect adds 1d6 to damage, and bane adds 2d6. That would up the damage from a single d4. The wounding power, combined with certain feats (like Spring Attack or Whirlwind Attack) can really whittle down an opponent (or three).

I guess my question would be, if he's a great knife-fighter (which it seems), why would he switch to bard? Maybe there are some feats (like Educated) that would explain the switch-over?
15th-Dec-2004 10:36 am (UTC)
I guess my question would be, if he's a great knife-fighter (which it seems), why would he switch to bard? Maybe there are some feats (like Educated) that would explain the switch-over?


A no-prize for anyone who knows where this exchange took place

"I go where my sword takes me!"

"I go where the music takes me!"
15th-Dec-2004 05:34 am (UTC)
I wouldn't worry about the dagger's low damage, after a while the actual weapon damage is less relevant anyway it's D4 cf D8 for a longsword, so only 4 less at maximum anyway.
I agree with the above chaps who suggested 2 weapon style fighting, it's one feat and doubles your effectiveness-sort of:)(penalty to hit...but lots extra damage).
There's actually a knife fighter prestige class that didn't look too bad either, might be worth a look.
18th-Dec-2004 05:22 pm (UTC)
Rogue/ fighter.

Go with the feats you've already taken.

Now, what you can do is throw in the feat: monkey grip, suddenly you have large daggers that do 1d6 damage + str modifier + plus additional feat damage + sneak attack.

then you can consider either the PrC's master thrower, or invisible blade.

Consider burst weapons, try not to go for flaming, as everything these days has resistance to fire, try electricty of cold, or have a mixture.
Also put returning on them, so you don't have to retrieve them.

Keep a high dex and strength, and keep your third highest in intelligence if your going to multiclass into rogue.
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