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D&D 3E
Magic Mouth 
23rd-Nov-2004 04:38 pm
This spell imbues the chosen object or creature with an enchanted mouth that suddenly appears and speaks its message the next time a specified event occurs.

wow. that's an awful lot of play room for a first level bard spell, sin't it? what's to stop the PC from using it as a catch all passive scan detect spell?

message: Look out, Chester
condition: medallion the spell is cast on is within 5' of an invisible creature.

see where i'm going? sure it speaks out loud but its permanent and passive, goes off as soon as a condition is met. the spell description doesn't limit the conditional trigger at all, and the spell doesn't appear to be affectd by spells that inhibit detection. did i find a loophole here or what? how would you rule if someone tried this in your game? "creative spell use" or "rules abuse"?
23rd-Nov-2004 09:51 pm (UTC)
what's to stop the PC from using it as a catch all passive scan detect spell?

Not a damn thing--in fact, if a player of mine used it like that I'd probably reward him for ingenuity.

If you don't like your players using it like that, then perhaps you should give one of your invisible badasses an Amulet of Non-Detection (which trumps even the most aggressive attempts at detection).
23rd-Nov-2004 09:57 pm (UTC)
if a player of mine used it like that I'd probably reward him for ingenuity

well let's hope my DM feels the same way!
23rd-Nov-2004 10:08 pm (UTC)
Or penalize for not reading the spell description. ;)
23rd-Nov-2004 10:12 pm (UTC)
aw crap, you're right:
Commands can be as general or as detailed as desired, although only visual and audible triggers can be used. Triggers react to what appears to be the case. Disguises and illusions can fool them. Normal darkness does not defeat a visual trigger, but magical darkness or invisibility does. Silent movement or magical silence defeats audible triggers. Audible triggers can be keyed to general types of noises or to a specific noise or spoken word. Actions can serve as triggers if they are visible or audible

back to the drawing board.
24th-Nov-2004 12:44 am (UTC)
I knew I remembered something about the spell being limited in that way. It's cooler uses involve Clash-of-the-Titans style causing statues to talk to people and deliver cryptic clues. Paintings and other works of art are handy for this too.
(Deleted comment)
23rd-Nov-2004 10:09 pm (UTC)
does it? how'd i miss that?
23rd-Nov-2004 10:10 pm (UTC)
I don't know.
23rd-Nov-2004 10:13 pm (UTC)
Might be that the cool idea got lodged in your head and your brain was in denial about reading that part? *grin*

I had a player who would get an idea in his head and it was extremely difficult to talk him out of it even when he was presented with basic facts.

He thought, for instance, that daylight adaptation could remove the vampire's vulnerability to sunlight. I still don't think I talked him out of THAT one and he's probably tried to use it on various people since.
23rd-Nov-2004 10:21 pm (UTC)
actually i was looking up stuff on the SRD to figure out costs for magic item creation. i'm playing a bard soon and a couple of the threads got me thinking about items i can make if i take the right feats. but all i was looking for was the components required because other than level that's all that affects price, as far as the spell description is concerned. so i just didn't read the whole description. read the thing about the conditions, then the line about the components (Material Component: A small bit of honeycomb and jade dust worth 10 gp) but didn't read the rest.

dammit. :P
23rd-Nov-2004 10:24 pm (UTC)
i'm generally pretty reasonable as a player, because i usually DM. there's no way i'd let that daylight adaptation thing fly.
24th-Nov-2004 01:32 am (UTC) - A beautiful day in the neighborhood
If you read the whole spell, it specifically states it cannot see invisible creatures. Also disguises and illusions can fool them. It's permanent until dischaged. So it's a one shot deal and must be recast. It cannot detect aligment or guess class or level. It can work off of clothes descriptions.
Casting it on an earing, you can say the condition is, whisper anytime any humanoid comes within 5 feet. So a theif or assasin trying to sneak up on you while sleeping will be foiled, but a giant spider can approach without triggering because it's not a humanoid.
It can recognise verbal commands, like the verbal componets of a spell, but you have to be specific. You can't say "If you hear someone casting magic" It can't tell the difference between normal words and magic words. You can tell it a list of common magic words and it will listen for those, but they have to be in the same language you program the spell with.
24th-Nov-2004 02:33 am (UTC)
One of the things about tricksy spell effects is that you can't trick a spell into being more powerful than it is. Detecting invisable stuff just flat out isn't a first level effect. Research might come up with a third or fourth level variant magic mouth that did do what you want, if your campaign features stuff like researching up new spells, or discovering exciting new spells in dusty old tomes.
24th-Nov-2004 02:51 am (UTC)
yeah yeah, look at the thread.
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