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D&D 3E
Making your own armor and stuff 
25th-Apr-2003 12:49 am
I'm DMing a group right now that likes to make stuff out of every dead beast they find. And I'm down with that and all but, one of them wants to make purple worm skin armor and said it would make him +18 armor. I don't think that is right. Can someone point out in one the books rules for this kind of stuff. Or maybe a good file on the web. Even a book if I have to get it that might make more sense out of making stuff. I'm very confused on this subject, so any help is welcomed.

Also of note for people who like to check this kind of stuff out my group started a blog of us talking about our game. We thought it would be an interesting way to give feedback to each other. There isn't much now but hopefully soon their will more.

25th-Apr-2003 12:04 am (UTC)
Well, I go by my own rules. Half the rules from the books are thrown out. I like to make things simple and move fast.

The problem is this kid is a rules lawyer but he doesn't know the rules. This is the first time he has played. I was told he knew how to play. It turns out he played the D&D computer games, which I truly feel will never capture the feeling of the pen and paper game. He also has little common sense. The rest of the group have been great, even the type 1 "I'm the girlfriend here to my with my boyfriend" has begun getting into it and doing good. This kid thinks he is the "shit" but is more like a piece of pooh.

Ahh sorry about the venting. But I just needed some guideline or ideas on it. Your ideas did help me a lot. Even has a player I was never that worried about making stuff or making my stuff magical (esp. as this kid who giving me the problems is). For me what should win the fight is smarts and cunning, not we have the uber weapons and armor and we smite all.
25th-Apr-2003 03:46 am (UTC)
that just sounds incredibly stupid.
as the dm, you simply say 'that's not possible.'
your word is law.
25th-Apr-2003 05:47 am (UTC)
The Purple Worm's natural AC would take into account a dense muscle structure, and things like that, so the AC of armour made from it is bound to be lower. Then, you need to decide how flexible it is. I'd guess not very, which would give a very low max Dex - say, +0 for a full suit, or +1 for a half suit. And, of course a hight arcane spell falure and weight. All in all, I wouldn't imagine that the result is much superior to platemail. Having said that, I would make it better (in some aspect) just so that players do seek out cool and exotic armours.

In addition, there's the difficulty and cost of finding a tanner who knows how to work with such a material. Don't make it easy, but make it worth doing, if they want to persevere.

If you have a copy of Mongoose Publishing's Quintessential Fighter, it's worth looking at how they handle dragonskin / hydraskin / bugbear hide armours. They have their advantages, you're generally better off (on a strict GP value) with traditional armours. Having said that, one of my characters is currently carrying around some silver dragon hide, trying to find an armourer who can do something with it.
25th-Apr-2003 05:52 am (UTC) - 3e Rules
Sure, there are rules for making armor out of monster skin -- out of dragonhide , to be specific.

From the SRD:

"Armorsmiths can work with dragonhides to produce masterwork armor or shields for the normal cost. One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature up to one size smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature up to two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, there is enough hide to produce a small or large masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is of at least Large size."

There are no additional bonuses. It's just cool-looking masterwork armor.
25th-Apr-2003 10:35 am (UTC) - Re: 3e Rules
i would take the above into consideration along with the beast-skin armors in books such as the Arms and Equipment Guide and whatever else may have them. i personally believe that armor made of purple-worm or certainly dragon scales would be inherently better than masterwork, but certainly NOT +18! maybe +2 or +3. and then, it's up to you as DM what this might cost to make and whether magical bonuses stack with these natural bonuses or not...

i would try to find a good medium between the examples set and rules such as above...
25th-Apr-2003 01:33 pm (UTC) - how i have dealt with characters that want to make armor out of monsters
I agree/disagree with a few other posts here. I agree in that the process should be long and drawn out. What this person needs is an expert armorsmith -somebody who specializes in hides and hide armor, leatherworking too. Just tell the player he can carry it around, but does the players character know anything about skining a beast to spare it's hide. Ask anyone who actually hunts in our day and age, it's not an easy thing to do if you do not know what you are doing.

This is how I deal with players that want to make armor out of monseters:

Start with an AC of 18, because he has suggested it, and tell him that the armor making process is not as easy as his character thinks. First you have to skin the creature properly, which may or may not be an easy undertaking.
Tell him that if he has the wilderness lore skill he can effectivly skin the creature but set the DC of the project to 15+ because it's a monster and unnatural. If he fails the role then he messed up some of the hide while attempting to skin it. Thus you downgrade the potential AC if he failed to skin it properly, say about two potential points of armor class. Tell the player that his character skinned it improperly and the result damaged some of the hide, or even wasted some of the hide. Depenending on his characters level, you could set the DC high enough that he would fail it, anyway unless he rolled a 20. Tell him also that he needs a Craft(leatherworking) skill to effectivly treat the skin of the creature and set the DC for that skill attempt at 15+, if he fails that skill roll lower his suggested 18 AC by two more potential points. Now also tell him that it takes more then just the skin of a creature to offer good protection. In our own bodies, our muscle, size, and bones also play a part in protecting from external damage, and explain it to him like that even though it's a bit insulting to the intelligence. Lower the potential player suggeted AC by two more points.
Now your player needs to find sombody who is not only good at leather and hide armor but also sombody who specializes in Monstrous hide and leatherworking so to speak. Tell him that when he trys to impress it upon a normal blacksmith that he needs to find a leatherworker not a blacksmith. Make it take him a while to find one, but not at the expense of the game time, but eventually let him find an expert. The expert should charge him at least 5,000 gp to create the armor PLUS a portion of the skin itself for the expert's own private collection. If the player agrees subtract two more points from the potential AC that represents the experts portion of the skin for his collection. Making the Armor is going to take a while, about a month at best, tell the player that the leather worker will attempt to work faster but without the time taken for care he will be at risk of damaging the hide. Have the expert tell him that he can have it to the player in a weeks worth of time if his entire family helps him with the job but the price will go up by another 2,000 gp. IF the player agrees to the faster way then you can knock off two more points off of that AC. Here you can offer the player yet another option. The leather expert only makes hide and leather armors, so at best he could make a suit of hide armor off of the skin, then lower the AC two more points because of best possible form of quality armor is hide and the higher bonus armors are made of metal.

Player suggested AC 18
failed Wilderness Lore -2
failed Craft(leatherworking) -2
takes more then skin -2
experts private collection -2
rushed creation -2
only be made into hide -2

What your left with is Hide armor with an AC bonus of +6 instead of +3 - this lets the character still have armor that is better then the norm, especially when reminded that other factors go into armor quality outside of just the straight bonus(weight, speed, dex bonus). And for the DM you don't have a troublemaker character out there with +18 armor.

One thing I have found though, is never tell your players "because I say so". This may work for other people, but I found that people are more likely to have fun when you do not become a dictator.

I hope I havent blatantly repeated what anyone else said, This method has worked for me in the past.
25th-Apr-2003 09:42 pm (UTC)
Well, thank you all for your ideas. They have helped me a lot.

I still run into a few problems the town that I have the characters going to is like a small frontier town. We needed a town but I didn't know what else to have close to a very evil dungeon of doom. I also stated earlier on that this town was like eight months away from anything of importance. The town had a blacksmith but uh he left do to confusion. And nothing much else. But this guy is determined to go find magic casters to make his stuff magical. I don't think he realizes he has to work with the group.

He just drives me batty, and gives me nasty anxiety attacks.
6th-May-2003 05:56 pm (UTC) - Hm...
I think some people forgot that dragon's AC is high because of all of the gold that they sit on... thus it gets stuck to their hides.
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