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D&D 3E
my wife's chaotic neutral pc's are a pain in my ass. getting the pc's… 
27th-Sep-2004 05:10 pm
my wife's chaotic neutral pc's are a pain in my ass. getting the pc's to stick together and have common motivation is hard enough as is without her wildly independant and unpredictable mavericks ruining it for everyone else. bah. she's killing me. at least she's not a fricking barbarian this time. her selfish CN rogue motivated by the search for fame and fortune is a lot easier to deal with than her insane pyromaniac CN barbarian driven by the need to smash things, set stuff on fire and kill anyone who looked at her cross-eyed ever was... BAH!</rant>
27th-Sep-2004 02:19 pm (UTC)
It sounds like you need to reinforce that actions have consequences. If she does these things, and never sees any consequences for her actions, then there is nothing to keep her from repeat performances. Perhaps an arrest and trial? Or have her see what she has burned down, while it looked like a random building is actually an orphanage. Watching the city guard haul children's bodies out of the burned wreckage should reinforce your point quite nicely.

Chaotic Neutral is perhaps my favorite alignment to play. One thing that bothered me in second edition is that CN meant crazy. That is no longer the case. An extremely unorganized slovenly person who fought against unjust or unfair laws, but out of a sense of unfairness rather than for good would be chaotic neutral. A sloppy demon hunter who killed demons and sold their parts to wizards purely for profit could also be chaotic neutral.

Point here is actions have consequences. The paladin who has the party rogue arrested for B&E, then can't get through a locked door later must face these consequences. A CG ranger who is forced to live as an outlaw knows these consequences. A CE sorceror hunted down by townsfolk knows these consequences. A CN barbarian pyromaniac should too.
27th-Sep-2004 02:31 pm (UTC)
she's not playing that character anymore. actually her cn rogue hasn't had a chance to do anything bad yet. i was just thinking about it. i'm trying to think of a better hook for my intro, i had them all drafted into the militia but don't really like that. but her pc is the only one who i know would really not hang with the rest of them unless forced to. or unless she was hired to kill one of them. hrm.
27th-Sep-2004 02:29 pm (UTC)
"getting the pc's to stick together and have common motivation is hard enough as is without her wildly independant and unpredictable mavericks ruining it for everyone else."

That's why, in most of my campaigns, I enforce the following rule from the first moment of character creation:

If your character has no reason to stay with the party, let him go his own way and create a new one who will.

I refuse to fight with my players to keep them involved. If they don't like the game, they can tell me, and I'll work with them to change it. But if they're just trying to get away from the rest of the party because "it's what their character would do," they can create a new character. D&D is a group activity, and I've long since lost patience with those who refuse to acknowledge that.

Fortunately, my players are all pretty good about that, and it hasn't been an issue in quite some time. :-)
27th-Sep-2004 05:11 pm (UTC)
That is a good motto, and I think I shall steal it ;)
27th-Sep-2004 08:41 pm (UTC)
Mind if I borrow that for my house rules?
27th-Sep-2004 08:55 pm (UTC)
Please do. I can't claim full credit for it anyway; I'm far from the only person I know of who's instituted such a rule. :-)
28th-Sep-2004 09:34 am (UTC)
Been there, suffered that.
27th-Sep-2004 02:35 pm (UTC)
Why aren't there any consequences for her actions? Where's the Paladin to put down the mad dog?
27th-Sep-2004 02:36 pm (UTC)
her barbarian took consequences actually. got them in a lot of trouble. the new pc hasn't had a chance to get me yet. but we start wednesday.
27th-Sep-2004 02:38 pm (UTC)
Chaotic neutral doesn't mean stupid and random. Alignment is a description, not a motivation. When I run a game, if the players can't come up with a good reason to stick together, they get one. Sometimes it's a cliche, like "you are all in service to the same duke" but they get a reason. Some solo time, great, we make time for 1 on 1 interaction with el DM. A lot of solo time? You get a summary based on some dice rolls, and then you get to wait for the rest of the group to catch up on the timeline, why don't you run out to the store and grab us some chips?

As a player, one of my favorite characters was chaotic neutral at the start and spent some time chaotic evil. But he was loyal to his friends. A defenseless little halfling can't afford not to have warriors and mages for friends if he wants to be rich and famous. His protective friends were so effective that when he finally drew his sword for the first time at 7th level, found it to be rusted and useless.
27th-Sep-2004 02:56 pm (UTC)

I'm just curious if you are upset with your wife or the action of your wife's character? Re-reading your entry, I can see the angle from both ways.

The reason I ask is that my fiance and I game with four fantastic gamers. The DM and his wife are two of our best friends. We often get a bit perturbed with the way a player handles things as well as how their character handles things.

Of course, a character who causes friction or endangers the party should quickly learn there can be very negative results from over zealous bravado. Good luck to you :)

27th-Sep-2004 05:12 pm (UTC)
actually my wife and i are usually pretty good about not bringing couple stuff into game which is surprising considering how sensitive she can be at times. (me too i guess but wtvr...). although she and friends of ours have brought outside arguments into the game and that's never pretty. obviously i'm not totally unbiased here but i really think it was almost always less her fault than my friend's but again, whateve.

at any rate no, i really got tweaked at her last character. totally disruptive. and i was worried about her current character but we talked about her motivation and how she planned to play it, and i'm actually cool with it now. she's still CN, but not the same insane CN she was last game.

which is a total relief.
27th-Sep-2004 06:44 pm (UTC) - Simple solution
"Deciding why your PC is adventuring is your responsibility." I tell all of my players, even the very-new ones, that line, and I don't have problems.

Of course, I also supply some good reasons to adventure together:

1: You all know each other. (A great standby)
2: PC X has been quested to aid PC Y.
3: PC X is a student/mentor/cousin of PC Y.
4: PCs S, T, U, W, X, & Y all have their own reason to hate recurring villian Z.

28th-Sep-2004 09:37 am (UTC) - Re: Simple solution
I had a good campaign once that started with #4 and then when they all died turned into #2, a la "Find out what happened to those assholes"
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