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D&D 3E
Illusionist Ideas 
7th-Jun-2004 12:07 am
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Anyone know of any good sites or resources for illusionist ideas? I prefer to play Sorcerer and focus on illusion so some new spells, feats, etc. would be great. I've already got Quintessential Sorcerer, School of Illusion (I think by Mongoose), Tome and Blood, and Unearthed Arcana. Any other ideas?

Also, what are some interesting things that you have done with illusions? And what is your opinion on this question:

If a person interacts with an illusion other than physically, does that provoke a will-save to disbelieve? Is it only tactile interaction that does so? Example: During one session, I created a slowly descending celing of fire over the heads of some goblins to put a bit of fear in them. Add a little sound and thermal and it was fairly convincing. However, would simply seeing that fire above them, feeling the heat from it, or hearing the sound of it cause them to get the willsave? Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

--
Avery W. Krouse
aka Averin S. Lanstone.
Comments 
6th-Jun-2004 09:16 pm (UTC)
Any time the character has cause to focus on the illusion, they should get a will save. This includes any time they talk to one that should talk back, certainly any time they touch one, and definitly any time they react as if in danger from one.

That said, I'd suggest your illusionist invest in various magical items and cloak himself in multiple layers of illusion, sprinkled with transmutation and conjuration spells to keep the believability high.
7th-Jun-2004 01:04 am (UTC)
Personally I would disagree with that. I think an illusion would mimic the real, and only when something happens with the illusion that would normally not happen should you get the save.

Like only when you should be getting burned, and aren't, should you get the save (even if your not touching the fire). Or something very unbelievable; like in real life a dragon. If something is 'unbelieveable' within the context of that world (like a dragon in post-cataclysm Dragonlance, or a fireball in modern day), you should also get a save. But if magic is a very real thing. Its all a matter of whether the person "goblins" believe in the fire. If they have reason not to (such as interaction) then no, however merely focusing on I would say would not porvoke a will save.

IF your DM does allow that; argure for only glamors (sp?), since that seems to be the most immaterial. Shadows is just from that plance etc.....
7th-Jun-2004 05:21 am (UTC)
I only partially agree on the saving throw issue. Any time a character interacts with an illusion in *any* way, they should be allowed some sort of roll/check. Whether you think that should be a Will save as per the Illusion or some other check, that is debatable. If you don't allow a check, then illusions become more powerful than their "real" counterparts.

Take the ceiling example. If a spellcaster were to cast Fear/Cause Fear, the target(s) would be allowed a saving throw. Another example might be if a character is talking with an illusionary person. Most people, especially wary adventurers, try to size up the people they interact with. What happens when you do a Sense Motive on an illusion? I would argue that you get a Will save. It can almost be seen as an alternative for Spot. You mentally notice something is "off".

All that being said, sometimes a good illusion just shouldn't be disbelieved. In those cases other rolls might give different clues. For example, I'm running a campaign in which one of the NPCs is an animated pair of bracelets with an illusion of a human "filling it out". I didn't want the PCs to be able to simply disbelieve him, so I allowed a Spot check. One person barely made it, so I describe some subtle details that did not seem quite right. Another character cast Detect Thoughts. I described it as, "You don't read anything at all. It is almost as if he's not 'there'." Eventually one of the characters poked him with a finger which passed through him. It was a good storytelling moment.
7th-Jun-2004 12:23 am (UTC)
Do you mean Encyclopædia Acrane: Illusionism? If not, I heartily reccomend it.
15th-Jun-2004 01:27 am (UTC)
Anonymous
This is fairly easy. The power of illusions lies in the visible component. Rules within the PHB and DMG clearly state that interaction is necessary to force a Will saving throw for disbelief. Allowing PCs and enemies will saves upon first catching sight of illusions diminishes the potency of the illusion.

The most important factor is that a saving throw is allowed; that said, it may seem, at first, that it wouldn't matter whether the saving throw is made on first sight or first interaction, as long as there's a saving throw in there somewhere. However, one of the most versatile aspects of illusions are that they can alter the behavoirs and actions and PCs and enemies with just the visual component. For example, the illusionary wall over the real door, the illusionary monster causing the PCs to decide against entering the room. In this, it is more beneficial for you and for your players to force the saving throw at interaction rather than first sight.

In your presented scenario, I would have allowed the saving throw at the first scent of smoke or at the first moment the targets felt the heat from the flames on their skin. Physical interaction need not mean touch.
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