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D&D 3E
Help with converting a 2ne ed character (x-posted to d20games, gmworkshop, roleplayers) 
7th-Apr-2004 06:47 pm
Pyro
ok... normally this wouldn't be a problem.... except this particular character is sort of a unique class....

he's a Beastrider Shaman.....

ok, the shaman part is more or less self explainatory...

the Beastrider part...well....he started off with a special mount which he had a telepathic link to....the animal had a starting Int of 8...and they "talked" through this link... they treated each other like brothers...which is what they called each other...the mount was cohort, familiar, companion...as well as being his ride....

as for the Shaman thing, I dunno if there is any source available which might have a similar class....he used both arcane and divine magic, kind of like the Mystic Theurge PrC....and had decent fighting stats...

if there is a class similar to either one, Beastrider or Shaman, let me know...for both....if not i may need help creating the class(es)

let's start by sayin that, if i have to create both, i've already thought of makin the Beastrider a PrC ....as for the Shaman, i'm already lookin through the spell lists to start layin out appropriate spells for the Shaman class....but help would be GREAT

thanks much
Comments 
7th-Apr-2004 04:55 pm (UTC)
There are a couple of PrCs in the "Masters of the Wild" book. Windriders are able to improve upon their animal companions, and Tamers of Beasts can have lotso animal companions. There may be more in there too. That should help with your Beastrider.

Is the shaman just someone who has arcane and divine spells? Because if so, I'd just make him a multi-class sorcerer/druid or something. Or just be a druid and say you cast spells in a funky way, perhaps there is something in the Arcana Unearthed book that will help? Otherwise I'd probably go with a Druid/Sorc and PrC to a Windrider, which should get flavor of the character you want. If you make him human you could even grab a level or two of Barbarian or Ranger to help with combat and the whole Shamanistic thing.

Keep in mind that you probably won't be able to make the character exactly the same and still be balanced with most 3e campaigns...
7th-Apr-2004 05:05 pm (UTC)
first off... thanks for the advice on the Beastrider thing.... but are any of the PrC's able to take magical beasts as mounts? well you see, this particular mount/familiar/companion/brother was a massive scorpion (i think we estimated it's size, claws to stinger at 35-40'...remember, long tail and all)

next... yes... not sure if you saw it, but he did cast divine and arcane... and it would be easier to make it a single class...because it had better fighting stats than the druid or wiz/sorc....

third....despite what i'm aiming for, i think I can make it balanced and keep to the original heart of the character....and this is why i'm lookin for as much help as io can get...
7th-Apr-2004 06:32 pm (UTC)
I think the Windrider does let your animal become a magical beast. There's also a PrC in there called "master of the wild" that lets you boost up a specific animal. Maybe some combination of those?

Yes, I did see arcane and divine. Now, as I understand it, a class that can do BOTH of what a cleric and a wizard can do AND has better fighting stats than BOTH of them?? How can that be balanced?? I guess maybe if you cut the spell-list down A LOT... then maybe you could make it a bard (which is 2nd in fighting, but still not bad) with an animal companion instead of songs and a spell-list of about the same size (bards do cast some divine spells as arcane).

But in my campaign, if you wanted to play a character that could cast arcane spells, cast divine spells, and fight like a warrior (which to me is equal to doing everything) you'd be SOL. Sorry, just my opinion. Good luck with your character though :)
7th-Apr-2004 10:04 pm (UTC)
But in my campaign, if you wanted to play a character that could cast arcane spells, cast divine spells, and fight like a warrior (which to me is equal to doing everything) you'd be SOL. Sorry, just my opinion. Good luck with your character though :)

I agree
8th-Apr-2004 02:14 pm (UTC)
ok.... again....the original had a limited spell list...had only a handful of offensive spells, mainly having divination, necromancy, and other non-combat spells, and used the 2e Thief fighting stats...and the class was still broken... we were working on ideas to fix it until the end of that particular campaign, and long after...

trust me.... it was not a power class...the DM eventually had to give the character a magic weapon and armor (which he spent almost 3 levels learning to wear) in order to keep the chracter alive past 5th level
8th-Apr-2004 02:07 pm (UTC)
that's just it.... his spell list (for the original) consisted of mainly divination, necromancy, and other non-combat spells, with only a handful of offensive spells...and he had a relatively small spell list to draw from (compared to the Wizard and Cleric)..that was both mine and the DM's choice...

as for fighting, he couldn't fight like a warrior...matter of fact, his fighting stats were taken originally from the 2e Thief...which still left the character unbalanced, in the negative....even though the DM and I found ways to balance the character in-game in that fashion....

as for the book... I don't have it yet, but i might pick it up next paycheck.... it just might solve the beastrider issue.....thanks
7th-Apr-2004 07:37 pm (UTC)
You may want to check out I think monster manual II, which I think has a prestige class for animals called war beast. It would make your beast a little tougher before you befriended it.
8th-Apr-2004 02:08 pm (UTC)
really...I did not know that....and I haven't even opened the MM2 in the bookstores to look.... thanks much
8th-Apr-2004 01:20 am (UTC)
I'd think a bard would fit in well there, since i didnt see any *specific* statement as to which class the Shaman fought as well as.

but afaik a bard has access to both divine and arcane spells and fights semi-decently...

as for a beastmaster PrC, i'm of no help there, sorry...

8th-Apr-2004 02:26 pm (UTC)
well.... i can safely say it does NOT fight like a warrior, fighter, etc...(hadda repeat that several times to others already....) matter of fact it used the 2e Thief fighting stats...and was still broken....

the bard is a good idea, but it don't quite fit....the class is meant to have the character originate from a Barbarian tribe (and again, it does not stand a snowball's chance in hell goin hand to hand against a Barbarian) think of...well the Native American shaman, much younger, of course.... as an idea of what the class should resemble somewhat in terms of magic....it had a limited spell list and only a small amount of combat magic...it had mostly divination and other non-combat magic...as for fighting, i'm thinking Bard, like you suggested, or Druid....
8th-Apr-2004 05:40 am (UTC)
Importantly, to what purpose or extent did this class cast both arcane & divine spells and just how decently did he fight anyway? I mean, he could be casting all these spells just to be powerful, or maybe he's diverse likes the bard's spell list. It could be argued that a cleric or druid fights decently.
8th-Apr-2004 02:54 pm (UTC)
well, the original 2e character used the Thief fighting stats (didn't work as well at higher levels btw) and it's spell list was limited....it consisted of mostly divination, necromancy, and other such aiding spells, as well as healing magic...it had few fighting spells....

we tried to design it similar to the Native American shaman...with the obvious D&D tweaks, of course...wiseman, healer, etc...and gave it skills to match...

i didn't want it to be a fighting class....and tried to avoid makin it a power class of any kind....
8th-Apr-2004 02:56 pm (UTC)
It sounds a lot like a cleric or druid with an alternate spell list.
8th-Apr-2004 03:19 pm (UTC)
not quite....but close...it used arcane as well as divine magic....and for this incarnation of the class it needs better fighting stats than the original....

and the druid doesn't have necro spells...unless i overlooked something (I might have...)

and I might have to tweak the druid skill list....and the bonus feats would need to be reworked...

i've had a couple people suggest using the Druid as template...but it still needs lots of retooling...
8th-Apr-2004 03:24 pm (UTC)
In casting Arcane vs Divine can the character cast either in armor or only the divine? or maybe like the Bard, casting some healing spells as arcane, but ignoring spell failure in light armor.
8th-Apr-2004 03:40 pm (UTC)
actually, the armor issue was never solved.... i settled it by just not casting when he was wearin his enchanted armor...when he started he didn't wear armor....

this is one of the questions i'm askin help answerin....
8th-Apr-2004 03:43 pm (UTC)
Make his spell list arcane and let him cast over light armorgive him a restricted spell list, but put in goodies from the wizard, cleric and druid lists that you think are appropriate.
10th-Apr-2004 11:48 am (UTC)
it's an idea...i've been thinking maybe not even giving the class an armor proficiency.....what use would he have with any, considering that most of this particular class is non-combat oriented...

at least that's what i've been thinking of....
10th-Apr-2004 05:46 pm (UTC)
That's something too. You might want to expand his spells available or spell list over the bard's in that case.
13th-Apr-2004 12:22 pm (UTC)
i've been getting suggestions about using the Druid as a template to work from....thinkin of using their spell progression....but i would still need to rework the spell list itself....

my idea is to use the druid's spell progression, with the sorcerer's casting ability...it would limit how many spells they can have available at one time and still give them the flexibility of being able to throw whatever spell they have memorized....

and it should solve the question about giving them too much magic in addition to some fighting ability
13th-Apr-2004 12:33 pm (UTC)
i've been getting suggestions about using the Druid as a template to work from....thinkin of using their spell progression....but i would still need to rework the spell list itself....

my idea is to use the druid's spell progression, with the sorcerer's casting ability...it would limit how many spells they can have available at one time and still give them the flexibility of being able to throw whatever spell they have memorized....

and it should solve the question about giving them too much magic in addition to some fighting ability
9th-Apr-2004 07:53 am (UTC) - Empathic link
I'd say a nice GM should let you spend a feat slot to get the empathic link ability of the 2E 'Rider' kit, as there isn't any real equivalent of it in 3rd Edition.
10th-Apr-2004 12:09 pm (UTC) - Re: Empathic link
lmao... well... you see.... I'm NOT a nice DM.....and I think I can find a way around it..without fudging anything and keep it balanced

but thanks anyway...
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