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Rules question: two-weapon fighting
6th-Sep-2009 04:45 pm
So there have been a lot of posts in this community about two-weapon fighting (aha: specifically, this one), and I'm still not certain I understand it correctly.

So there's the core rules about TWF, and then there are the feats.

Here's how I understand it: If you have a rapier and a dagger, and you're a first-level fighter, then:
• you can attack with either the rapier *or* the dagger at +1 (which is equal to your BAB)

• you can attack with the rapier *and* the dagger at -3 (rapier) and -7 (dagger). (The penalties are less than they would be with two rapiers, because the dagger is a light weapon.)

• If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can attack with both the rapier and the dagger at -1 each (again, less of a penalty because the dagger is light).

Here's my main question: Does that extra attack from fighting with two weapons only trigger if you take a full attack action (i.e. a full-round action), or can you do it as part of one single standard action?

Let's say our fighter is now 12th level, with TWF, ITWF, and GTWF. This means he gets 3 extra attacks with his off weapon per [action - full or standard?]. His BAB is +12/+7/+2.

If TWF can be done as a part of a standard attack action, then he has a couple basic options for his round:

(a) Attack at +10/+5/+0 with his rapier and +10/+5/+0 with his dagger. Full-round action.
(b) Attack at +10 with his rapier and +10/+5/+0 with his dagger. Standard action. Then he can move 30 feet.

If TWF can only be done as part of a full-round action (full attack action), then he can either do option (a) from above or

(c) Attack at +10 with his rapier (standard action) and move 30 feet.

So. Which one is it? (And is this explained in the SRD anywhere? I keep feeling like I've missed it somewhere obvious.)

Thanks!
6th-Sep-2009 09:51 pm (UTC)
Only with a full attack.

I'll have to dig to find the reference, but I'm fairly positive that you only get off-hand and interative attacks when using a full attack UNLESS you have a feat or power that allows you to make an attack with an offhand weapon as part of a standard attack (I seem to recall a few in the Book of 9 Swords)
7th-Sep-2009 08:15 am (UTC)
Dual Strike is in Complete Adventurer. It lets you take both attacks at a standard action at -4 to each, assuming you've got a light weapon. Sneak attack only applies once.
7th-Sep-2009 05:11 pm (UTC)
That's what I thought. And Dual Strike's very existence as a feat would imply this (proof by negation? something like that) but yeah.

Would still be good to get a reference/citation, but for now I'm just glad I'm not the only one who thought this/I'm not crazy. (Well...maybe not that last.)
7th-Sep-2009 08:41 pm (UTC)
I'm going to take the position that mangy mathan's citation is what you're looking for. If you examine the 'actions in combat' section of the SRD, you'll see that a standard action gives you a melee attack. Later, when you get to the part about full attacks, you see that attacking with two weapons is specifically mentioned there.

7th-Sep-2009 10:08 pm (UTC)
Oh. Duh. Yes, that's precisely it. "...you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks." Thanks!
6th-Sep-2009 11:28 pm (UTC)
Yeah, only during a full attack action.

Under Full Attack it says...
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks.