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D&D 3E
Domain Granted Powers 
26th-Apr-2006 06:43 pm
sunshine
Quick question:

How do domain granted powers that function based on cleric level (Death, Destruction, Travel, etc.) function with regards to prestige class levels?

I've assumed that it's ONLY base cleric level and has nothing to do with your prestige classes, so that a Cleric 7/Hospitaler 8 would use level-based domain powers as though they were seventh level (and not fifteenth).

That being said, I'm a little puzzled at how this works (thematically) when we look at a PrC that grant a prestige domain (Contemplative, for example).

Is there something official that I've missed, and do any of you do it differently?
Comments 
26th-Apr-2006 09:55 pm (UTC)
I would base it on the character's cleric spellcaster level, so that their PrC would only count if it also counts towards their spellcaster level. Off the top of my head, I think that settles out most of the inconsistencies.
26th-Apr-2006 09:59 pm (UTC)
That's how I've wanted to run it out as well.

It would have made a critical difference in our last D&D session if we had done it that way instead of the way I'd described in the original post.

I needed one more round of freedom of movement from the travel domain to get a break enchantment off to nix the spell that was on me (and try to fight an opponent now that I'd been hit with greater blindness -- I wanted to kick the DM in the teeth when I rolled that spellcraft check and failed the save), but since I only had five rounds (instead of fifteen), I ended up being paralyzed, subdued, captured, and stranded near the peak of a mountain without any way of curing my blindness. Had I had another ten rounds, the movement inhibiting effect would have been gone, and I would have bathed the area around me in a fire storm. :)
26th-Apr-2006 09:58 pm (UTC)
I don't recall anything official.

I would use the character's effective casting level from class levels. (So not including Bead of Power, or Practiced Spellcaster, or other feats/items).

26th-Apr-2006 10:02 pm (UTC)
Good note on limiting it to class levels.
26th-Apr-2006 10:04 pm (UTC)
(I've actually had what your icon depicts happen to me. My cat. My dreamcast. The floor. Bad combination.)
26th-Apr-2006 10:08 pm (UTC)
Your comment probably won't make sense to anyone who reads from this point on, so I'll use that icon on this post ;)

And for what it's worth, I had cat + PS2 + saving game = erased saved game. :(

Fortunately it was a fairly new GTA: Vice City game and not anything crucial like an RPG :)
26th-Apr-2006 10:28 pm (UTC)
I disagree with everyone else (except you): the domain descriptions in the PHB all say "cleric level" or "half-cleric level". A Wiz3 that takes a level of fighter can't pick weapon specialization as their bonus feat, so why should a prestige class award cleric levels?

(Magic domain is an exception where Wizard levels stack)
26th-Apr-2006 10:40 pm (UTC)
That being said, a Barbarian 2/Rogue 4 gets Improved Uncanny Dodge (two levels sooner than a straight rogue) and stacks both classes for the purposes of determining what level rogue is needed to bypass it.

I know it's explicitly written in that case, but I can't find anything explicitly written either way for clerics (and the FAQ was silent), but it seems strongly odd to me that getting two domains from Contemplative (which represents a closeness to your deity/philosophy) but only using your cleric levels for any domain abilities granted by the class.
26th-Apr-2006 10:40 pm (UTC)
Never having actually had the problem, I'd rule that it's based on your cleric level not your PrC level. Just like turning undead, or familiar/animal companion abilities, or anything else. It's one of those abilities you give up that makes the Mystic Theurge-like classes balanced (assuming they are).
26th-Apr-2006 10:43 pm (UTC)
Do you have a different opinion where PrCs that grant you a domain are concerned? Should they stack, use cleric level, or use PrC level?
26th-Apr-2006 10:47 pm (UTC)
If it's not specifically mentioned, I'd say not. Most PrCs are pretty good about saying when stuff stacks, like monk abilities, animal companion, turn undead, etc.

Of course, if you read domain powers as being part of "cleric spellcasting" and so embedded in the +1 caster level... But I'd probably rule the domain power itself doesn't stack, unless maybe the PrC granted the same domain.

I can see both arguments. This is just my opinion.
26th-Apr-2006 10:57 pm (UTC)
Absolutely. I'm trying to get opinions here, so I appreciate the insight.

The PrC I'm looking at right now is contemplative, which grants two domains as class features (first level, sixth level).

The ability is worded as:

Bonus Domain: Upon adopting the contemplative class, and again at 6th level, a character gains access to a bonus domain of her choice. The character can choose any domain made available by her deity or alignment. The character gains the granted power associated with the domain she chooses, and can select the spells in that domain as her daily domain spells.


The other note is that this class can be picked up by non-clerics, who gain spellcaster as a cleric of their contemplative level (this is listed in the class information), but if they grabbed the domains, and the prestige class had nothing to do domain powers, they would not be able to use any level-based domain powers.

Hence my query.
26th-Apr-2006 11:01 pm (UTC)
I think in your case, yes.

But not for things like the Mystic Theurge.
27th-Apr-2006 02:45 am (UTC)
MT is on the weak side of balanced, at best.

On paper, it looks OMGWTFBBQ HOW many spells per day do you have??!?"

In actual play, all reports I've heard have stressed that it was underpowered due to not having the highest-level spells for either class and boring due to the nature of having lots of lower-level buffs available. Plus, even a single-classed spellcaster pretty much never runs out of spells per day after level 8 or so. The MT's extra spells become redundant under those conditions.

'course, this would be a bit different if more games enforced the "at least 4 encounters between resting" idea.
27th-Apr-2006 02:48 am (UTC)
I agree. I think my favorite argument is that even if you can cast tons of spells, you can still only cast one a round so it doesn't help as much as it would seem. I just put the parenthetical there to try and avoid an argument ;p
27th-Apr-2006 02:52 am (UTC)
Have you ever met someone who thinks the MT is overpowered on the basis of actual play experience? Or is it the same as what I've seen? "OMG, too many spells per day! MUST BE NERFED!"
27th-Apr-2006 02:56 am (UTC)
I don't think so. My powergamer did want to play one once, but that might just be proof of it's appearance on paper.
27th-Apr-2006 02:35 am (UTC)
refer to the mainFAQ page 2:
"Powers from clerical domains are class features, and any level-based variables they have depend on your level in the class that gives you access to the domain."

domain powers gained from your first level in cleric are cleric-based. it's the incentive for not multiclassing/prestige, your domain powers get stronger and stronger.
domain powers gained from a prestige class are prestige based.

hope that helps =)
27th-Apr-2006 06:49 am (UTC)
I must have totally missed that.

Thanks. :)
27th-Apr-2006 04:30 am (UTC)
Increased caster level granted by prestige classes does not stack with Cleric levels for purposes of determining effective level for a domain power.
1st-May-2006 05:48 am (UTC)
Correct.

Infact caster level granted by prestige classes adds only 2 things. Number of spells you can cast (And what lvl spell access you have) and your effective caster level. It does NOT effect class specific granted powers, unless specifically stated so. I.e. a prestige class that adds to the paladin class that states that "levels in are added to the your paladin level for determining class based effects such as lay on hands" or some such.

I've found that to be quite an annoying problem, but having run a campaign from 1st to 29th lvl (still running) and have come across this with one of our characters specifically (he's a loremaster/archmage/sorcerer).

Hope this helps.
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