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D&D 3E
monkliness 
10th-Apr-2006 11:17 pm
fox
If I am a monk, and I have two weapon fighting (for arguments sake, I have Perfect two weapon fighting, the epic feat), and perform a flurry of blows, how many attacks do I get? Assume I am right in front of my opponent and need not move more than a 5-foot step. Also assumed I am unarmed, using only unarmed strikes. I am ready for action, not flat footed or surprised.

a. five attacks. 4 attacks and one flurry attack at the highest base attack bonus. It says monks don't have an "off hand" with unarmed strike, so two weapon fighting cannot be used.
b. eight attacks. The flurry doesn't count and you get 4 with each hand
c. Nine attacks. 4 attacks with primary hand, 4 with secondary hand, 1 flurry at the highest base attack bonus
d. two attacks. one attack, and one flurry



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Flurry of Blows (Ex)

When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to -1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus × 1½ or ×½) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.

In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.

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Unarmed Strike

At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

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Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

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Two-Weapon Fighting

If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways:

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Comments 
11th-Apr-2006 03:22 am (UTC)
I'm pretty sure the FAQ says that flurry and TWF stack. So you get your 4 normal attacks, plus 1 at your highest BAB for the furry, plus whatever for the TWF feats (at their various attack bonuses). The whole thing gets -4 to attack (-2 from flurry, -2 from TWF). So if you have 4 TWF feats, and a BAB of +20, you get attacks at 16/16/16(offhand)/11/11(offhand)/6/6(offhand)/1/1(offhand), plus strength/magic/etc bonuses.

I think...
11th-Apr-2006 03:24 am (UTC)
err, sorry. THose should all be 2 higher because I forgot that the monk's furry penalty disappears.
11th-Apr-2006 04:21 am (UTC)
u'd get full number of flurry attacks and 4 attacks from ur full set of TWF feats
11th-Apr-2006 04:59 am (UTC) - Mr. Monk... Characters Wanted
first i must state that 2 weapon fighting does not work with flurry of blows, they are separate... where it says that a monks unarmed attacks are considered armed is only for designating armed for the purposes of attacks of opportunity, cause if your not a monk and make any unarmed attack in melee combat each strike draws an attack of opportunity... this being said, the only plus to not having an off hand is that while wielding two monk weapons (which are usually light weapons unless you take a certain feat to use other weapons as a monk weapon) you are at -6 -6 without two weapon fighting instead of -6 -10 (as far as ive found, please send me proof if im wrong... im tired of debating it with my friends)... you also can not use two weapon defense with flurry of blows which sucks waah
11th-Apr-2006 05:12 am (UTC) - Re: Mr. Monk... Characters Wanted
ah found it
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv03222006.zip

i think it's in page 9 or so
u can FOB and TWF
11th-Apr-2006 05:11 am (UTC)
ah found it
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv03222006.zip

i think it's in page 9 or so
u can FOB and TWF
11th-Apr-2006 05:55 am (UTC)
In essence, Flurry IS Two Weapon Fighting.

Observe at first level, flurry is -2/-2.

Assuming any other class with a BAB (let's say a Rogue) at 1st level using two-weapons, where the off-hand is light and the character has Two Weapon Fighting, he gets two attacks: -2/-2.

It isn't explained that way in the book, because a Flurry improves beyond the feat, and beyond what any other character can possibly attain unless epic.

So this begs the question: can you flurry a flurry?

I would say no, regardless of any sort of official statement given by Wizards or The Gygax himself.


So my answer is, when Monking it out, forget about TWF and Flurry to your hearts content while picking up other feats that won't actually raise rules debates, like Fists of Iron or Flying Kick.
11th-Apr-2006 06:55 am (UTC)
This is the same way I advised a monk that ended up high level in one of my campaigns. A monk with TWF is redundant, since Flurry of Blows takes a full-round action, whereas using TWF also necessitates a full-round action. They are abilities that achieve similar results, but that doesn't mean they should stack.
11th-Apr-2006 09:07 am (UTC)
Assuming TWF is allowed, it only ever gives you the one extra attack, you need Improved TWF to even get two.
11th-Apr-2006 12:30 pm (UTC)
The character has PERFECT two-weapon fighting. He gets an equal number of attacks with main and off hand.
(no subject) - Anonymous - Expand
11th-Apr-2006 01:09 pm (UTC)
"There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed."
11th-Apr-2006 01:50 pm (UTC)
It just doesn't make sense to me that I could hit with a quarterstaff 9 times but my smaller faster fists 5 times.
(no subject) - Anonymous - Expand
11th-Apr-2006 01:44 pm (UTC)
The d20 FAQ has many many pages on monks and how their attacks work. Start there for the definitive answer.

IIRC, they stack just fine. If you have perfect two weapon fighting you'd get your normal attack progression with your off hand, and then your normal progression with your major hand, then the extra from flurry. With whatever minuses from two weapon fighting and flurry you might still have.
11th-Apr-2006 02:00 pm (UTC)
A sufficiently high level monk, with PTWF, would get 8 attacks. (as an aside, a straight monk20 doesn't need PTWF...he only gets 3 iterative attacks due his 3/4 bab). The FAQ entries have already been posted which clarify the use of TWF and monk unarmed strikes. If you disagree with those, then of course you'll disagree with the results. :)

2 from flurry
3 normal
3 offhand

A sufficiently high level monk/fighter (16/4) would get 10 attacks
2 from flurry
4 normal
4 offhand
11th-Apr-2006 02:02 pm (UTC)
According to the Sage, Skip Williams, Flurry and Two Weapon Fighting stack.

The Sage, Skip Williams, is so utterly on crack about this one. This is one of his more imfamous rulings, that is not otherwise supported by the rules and makes little sense. Not to mention that others of the game designers have come out and said that this ruling makes no sense, and should be ignored, as monk flurry is their "poor-man's" TWF.

Regardles:

According to Skippy, , with BAB 16(a few levels of fighter, 11+levels of monk), perfect TWF and greater flurry you'd get:
+14/+14(flurry)/+14(flurry)/+14(offhand)/+9/+9(ImpTWF)
/+4/+4(GrTWF)/-1/-1(PerTWF)


THis is, IMO, crap. Either you should get +16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 (6, Greater Flurry) or you should get +14/+14/+9/+9/+4/+4/-1/-1 (PerTWF).
11th-Apr-2006 02:49 pm (UTC)
I agree with you. You should get one or the other and that ruling is completely illogical.
12th-Apr-2006 09:27 am (UTC) - yeppers
thanks for showing me i was wrong Serow... ive played everything but a monk ha and am wondering what is the point of using a monk weapon (aside from an xtra attack from a thrown weapon like a shuriken) when your unarmed damage is greater... unless its some relic weapon... can you keen your toenails
12th-Apr-2006 10:53 pm (UTC) - Re: yeppers
The advantage of using a monk weapon, you may ask?

Being a vampire and having a monk weapon enchanted with Necrotic Focus.

:-D

Oh, yes...
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