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D&D 3E
A question and a bit of a rant. 
27th-Feb-2006 04:52 pm
Alright, here's something that's come up that I'd like some feedback on.

For those of you who have seen (or played, or played with) the War Weaver from Heroes of Battle, do you find it to be balanced, underpowered, or overpowered?

The DM of the game I'm playing one in finds them balanced, if not a bit on the high end. I personally feel that they're broken, as does another GM that read them over and listened to the spells I could throw off with them.

The fact that in the first round of combat I can provide my party with the benefits of Haste, Greater Invisibility (Extended), usually Fly or Lutzaen's Frequent Jaunt (Magic of Faerûn, if I remember correctly) depending on which I had left over the previous day, and Sunmantle or Greater Luminous Armor (Book of Exalted Deeds) as a move equivalent action, and then toss in something like Protection from Energy or Bear's Endurance as a standard action just seems to be a little much.

Combine that with giving everyone the benefits of the Blindsight and Anticipate Teleportation spells at the beginning of the day for the entire day (or Greater Luminous Armor (Extended) if stealth is not needed), and having the option to Polymorph us all into something as obscene as a Cave or War Troll for a combat...

... it seems a little, well, broken.

The second part is a bit of a rant of mine. It's just something that annoyed the hell out of me during Saturday's session and been pissing me off the more I think about it, and I just need to rant about it somewhere.

It was just one of those moments where I wanted to reach across the table and smack another player across the face for doing what he did.

Our party, in an effort to travel from Waterdeep down to the Tethyr region (Forgotten Realms) got into some guard duty with a group of halflings and their caravan who were travelling to Amn (figuring we'd hitch a ride down there with the caravan and then work our way down to Tethyr from there). We're a high level party (~14th), so normally we would have looked into some magical transportation, but a) we were really in no rush (just looking for something to do), b) we were really low on funds, and c) I had no clue what any part of Tethyr looked like to try and teleport anywhere near a city there.

First fight was not a big deal. There are two PCs at the game, and we get engaged by a pair of astral stalkers and escape the fight with only minimal injuries (one of the NPC guards escapes with minor injuries. The caravan restocks and moves on. The third PC arrives from work at this point, and catches up with us (we're only a day from town at this point, so he could have ridden hard and cought up with us).

The second fight, we ran into a ragewalker (I think, from the MM3). Blade Barriers clip the horses up front in twain and prevent the retreat of the back line and severely limit our range of movement. We proceed to pepper the ragewalker with spells and slowly whittle him down. The leader of the caravan and the NPC guards move up to engage in melee, but the fight does not go well for them.

One of the other PCs reaches down and pulls a bead off his necklace of fireballs. Seeing this, and knowing that the NPCs are damaged, I cast a Protection from Energy - Fire spell, giving all of us 120 points of fire damage absorption. Knowing full well that the best fireball he can throw does 10d6, I know that the NPCs will be able to survive the barrage, which will hopefully kill the ragewalker and give the ranger (the aforementioned third PC) enough time to get up close and heal the caravan leader (who is the only one significantly wounded).

The ranger, meanwhile, does not have enough movement to get in close enough to be worth it, so he advances sixty feet and fires his bow. The ragewalker fails to hit any of the NPCs (yay, miss chance), and the necklace of fireballs PC gets to take his turn.

Only instead of throwing just the bead, he throws the entire necklace into a square adjacent to the ragewalker, and throws the bead he had dettatched at it.

This causes the entire necklace to explode (it failed the saving throw), inflicting 58d6 points of damage to all within the area. We only took the average damage for this (203) rather than rolling (we were short on time), but it ended up killing the ragewalker, the caravan leader, and one of the guards (the latter two both failed reflex saves, so 83 points still got through).

I just wanted to reach over and slap him, because he knew they were seriously wounded (the caravan leader was bleeding) and dropped that much damage on them.

Ugh. I just needed to type out that rant to save my sanity ;)
27th-Feb-2006 10:29 pm (UTC)
The class seems to be a bit overpowered I don't think I would allow someone to play a class like that if I were running a game. As for your friend I think I would of pushed him into the fire after a move like that lol.
27th-Feb-2006 11:45 pm (UTC)
Are you saying he can provide 4 spell effects as one move equivilant action? Ok, 14th level should be good for something, yes, but that's silly. The problem with adding all these new classes, is that each one has to be more powerful than the last.
28th-Feb-2006 12:19 am (UTC)
I can give you a brief summary of the abilities.

You can connect a number of people equal to your Int mod together in a magical 'weave'. This takes ten minutes, a DC 15 Craft (weaving) check, and lasts for 24 hours. You don't count towards this total, so it's essentially 1 + Int Mod including yourself.

Any spell of your class level or lower that is either harmless (as per SR or Saving Throw) or can only be cast on a willing creature can affect any or all creatures in the weave, at your discretion. They must all be in range, and any GP/XP/Focus costs must be paid for each creature (i.e. for Anticipate Teleportation, I had to give all of the PCs/NPCs a 500 gp hourglass to hold on to).

This means at Level 2 War Weaver (which you can hit at level 7), I could cast Bear's Endurance and have it affect all the PCs, provided I can touch them.

At level two and higher, you can "precast" a number of spells that could be cast through the weave equal to your class level - 1. These spells can later be discharged (either all at once or in part) as a move equivalent action. So for a fourth level War Weaver, you can put in three spells of fourth level or lower.

At fifth level, the range on any spells cast through your weave increases by one category. So a touch ranged spell (the aforementioned Bear's Endurance) can now affect all allies at close range, so you no longer need to touch them.

It gets pretty nasty.
28th-Feb-2006 12:59 am (UTC)
Sounds overpowered to me, but I'm not familiar with the feature creep new classes have these days. If a PC in my game really pushed for it, I would only agree to it with the clear understanding that bad guys would have access to it as well. The more hesitant I am to allow it, the more I make a point of having a bad guy use it to full effect. I've found that some things that PCs want, they don't want to see a horde of bad guys using against them.
28th-Feb-2006 05:42 pm (UTC)
I can assure you this class is not indicative of the current crop of classes, prestige or core. This, as described, is completely and utterly unreasonable for a PC class in every single sense of the word.
28th-Feb-2006 01:04 am (UTC)
Yeah, class seems broken. I would probably houserule that you could release a single prepped spell as a move action (so if you prep the spells, you can release them and still do something else - pretty powerful, but really no better than quicken). That and drop the spell level progression... probably require Skill Focus (craft) too... basically outlaw the class.

As for the necklace of fireballs... our sorcerer had one and due to bad aiming, ended up catching herself in the blast. The necklace explodes and almost takes out the party. She's actually had a couple of mishaps like that. Nothing lethal, and so they tend to be more amusing than anything else. But overkill like that can suck. Of course, now he's out a pretty expensive magical item, and perhaps will have some repercussions for killing innocent caravaners.
28th-Feb-2006 04:29 am (UTC)
Wizards are supposed to be intelligent. I always tell my players that at their level of profficiency they should be aware of the radius of their effects before they cast them, and explain it as many times as necessary. It may seem like metagaming, but who's gonna cast a spell without knowing exactly where it's going?
28th-Feb-2006 03:42 pm (UTC)
He knew, he just 'didn't notice' the GM giving the indication that the NPC guards were seriously hurt.
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