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D&D 3E
Quick question: 
22nd-Dec-2005 01:31 pm
Great Owl
Would the Deft Strike feat (ignores target's armor after a successful spot check against its provided AC) from Complete Adventurer also bypass the Fortification enchantment from the Dungeon Master's Guide?
Comments 
22nd-Dec-2005 06:46 pm (UTC)
I don't know the feat in question, so not necessarily a full answer.

First, I assume there are some limits (per day, move action to spot, something) to Deft Strike. Lest I ban it from my games out-of-hand.

If the Fortification is provided by the armor itself, then yes. It would bypass any enhancements provided by the armor (like Energy Resistance, DR, etc.)
If the Fortification is provided by a Special Quality or some other, inherent, ability (Warforged/Living Constructs*, a non-armor magical item, etc.), then no. Fortification would still stand.

* I'm not certain about this. IIRC, Warforged who take the No-armor body option from Races of Eberron maintain their 25% inherent fortification. If they do not, then deft strike would bypass it as well.
22nd-Dec-2005 08:46 pm (UTC)
It is a move action to actively make a Spot check (reactionary Spot checks, such as to notice someone sneaking up on you, are free actions).
23rd-Dec-2005 02:31 am (UTC)
I disagree. Deft strike, like a sneak attack, is a special attack, and as such, should have a percentage chance to be negated by fortification.

Alos, Deft Strike sounds Hella broken.

Guy 1: I am Fighter. I have an AC in the low 50s
Guy 2: I am Thief. I rolled a natural twenty on my spot check, and you failed your sense motive. I bypass your armour and sneak attack you for eleventy d6 damage.
Guy 1: Blarg. I am dead.
23rd-Dec-2005 07:56 am (UTC)
Nice =)
22nd-Dec-2005 08:47 pm (UTC)
sounds like a game breaking feat to me. awesome for rogues though. youcan ignore armor with a spot check? just dump lots of skill points into spot. skills go up so much faster than base attack bonus. yeah it's totally breaking.
22nd-Dec-2005 08:50 pm (UTC)
You have to have at least 10 ranks in Spot to take the feat as is.

I don't know that I'd call it game breaking, just enhancing the role of a Rogue as a damage dealer.
22nd-Dec-2005 09:28 pm (UTC)
Anonymous
if you've got improved feint you're a killer. plus sneak attack damage. whoo baby.
22nd-Dec-2005 09:41 pm (UTC)
But it's a move action to feint and a move action to Spot for Deft Strike, so you can only do one or the other unless you make one or both of them free actions.
22nd-Dec-2005 10:37 pm (UTC)
Invisible Blade, here I come!
22nd-Dec-2005 11:48 pm (UTC)
I so didn't make that build and include the Quick Recconoiter feat as well.

>_>
22nd-Dec-2005 10:07 pm (UTC)
Deft Strike doesn't allow you to "ignore the target's armor." It allows you to ignore the armor bonus and natural armor bonus to AC. There is a difference. Other AC bonuses still apply. The feat doesn't say you get to ignore enchantments such as fortification.

Deft Strike also requires a standard action, and the effects takes place on your next attack. For most people, this means you spend a combat round trying to spot a chink in someone's armor, and then you get to attack only the next round.
22nd-Dec-2005 10:39 pm (UTC)
True, there's nothing the say the armor doesn't place the fortification enchantment on the body as long at it's worn.
22nd-Dec-2005 11:57 pm (UTC)
"... ignore's the target's armor bonus and natural armor bonus to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor)."

If it's ignoring magical enhancement, it would be reasonable for it to also ignore magical enchantments.

It also describes it as "looking for weak spots" in a person's armor, which would also seem to bypass Fortification as it's described in the DMG.

Thank you for actually answering my question, though, rather than just giving me your opinion on the feat.
23rd-Dec-2005 12:07 am (UTC)
I disagree that enhancement bonuses refer to enchantments. Enhancement bonuses are part of the actual armor bonus. That's why a full plate +3 and a large steel shield +3 can have their bonuses stack, even though they both have an 'enhancement bonus.'

Fortification protects against critical strikes, not against people actually hitting you. In fact, fortification never comes into play unless you are hit, so I don't see how Deft Strike logically applies. That just stretches the definition of the feat too much in my opinion.
22nd-Dec-2005 11:57 pm (UTC)
Can an enchantment have a visibly obvious weak spot?

Deft Strike gives a spot check to find weak spots or unprotected areas. Enchants do not have these shortcomings to my knowledge.
22nd-Dec-2005 11:58 pm (UTC)
"... ignore's the target's armor bonus and natural armor bonus to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor)."
23rd-Dec-2005 12:36 am (UTC)
The enhancement bonus to armor/natural armor is strictly the value that increases the value of the armour or natural armor bonus and not anything else on the armour.

For reference,

[...] magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1.

In addition to an enhancement bonus, armor may have special abilities. Special abilities usually count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of an item, but do not improve AC. A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A suit of armor with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.


Emphasis mine, source is the SRD.
23rd-Dec-2005 12:44 am (UTC)
I'm just saying that there's some room for ambiguity here with regards to the interpretation of the intent of Deft Strike.
23rd-Dec-2005 01:07 am (UTC)
And I'm contesting that it's pretty cut and dry, as the ability explicitly states it causes them to ignore the armour bonus and the armour's enhancement bonus, implying the target is easier to hit, and that an armour special ability is neither an armour bonus or an armour enhancement bonus.

You're more than welcome to rule it either way, but the rules are pretty straight forward on this :)
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