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D&D 3E
A few questions for a baffled DM. 
27th-Aug-2005 07:34 pm
bitch
1) Do sorcerers get bonus spells known based on their charisma, or just bonus spells per day?

2) When creating a magic sword with a special ability (we'll say keen because that's the example used in the DMG), and the weapon is required to first have a +1 bonus, is the weapon's market value 4,000 gold (for having a +1 bonus and an ability that is the equivalent of a +1 bonus), or 8,000 gold (the cost of a weapon that would have a +2 bonus)? I apologize if that seemed confusing.

3) I know there's rulings on what happens when you place a bag of holding into a portable hole, but what happens if you place a bag of holding into a bag of holding? I ruled the same effect because it's still putting two planar pockets into each other, but I didn't know if there was actually an official ruling on this or not.

4) I have a player that is a planar vanguard (the psionic version of a plane shifter), and he, much to my own mistake as a DM, has turned the plane of earth into his neverending supply of money. I have thought about making gems steadily go down in market value due to the fact he's carted 1/10 of the plane of earth into the Material Plane, but I was wondering if there was possibly another idea to go about this with (besides throwing big scary monster in this spot of the plane so he can just teleport to another spot)?

Thanks a lot for any answers/help to my questions/curiosities!
Comments 
28th-Aug-2005 02:49 am (UTC)
1) Only spells per day.

2) 8k. Bonus's stack for cost purposes. Thats why the table goes to +10.

3) We've let bags of holding end up inside each other without the game ending. But its up to you.

4) Teleport lock? Big nasty monster that can teleport? Inflation ruins the price of gems, drives the economy intot he toilet, and probably kills a lot of people in the process. Not good for a Good character. Stop letting him find the good look on the plane of earth? Theres a lot more earth and rock than anything yummy.
28th-Aug-2005 02:52 am (UTC)
1) Sorcerers get bonus spells per day based on a high CHA score just as Wizards get bonus spells based on a high INT. A Sorcerer with a CHA of 14 would get a bonus 1st and 2nd level spell per day. Spells known is a fixed number, spells per day can change due to CHA score.

2) A +1 weapon costs 2000gp + the mwk value of the weapon (a +1 longsowrd costs 2308 gp). A +1 weapon with Keen costs the same as a +2 weapon. A +2 keen longsword costs 8308 gp. When determining the market value of a weapon for creation take the listed price bonus (such as the +1 equivalent value of the Keen ability) and add it to any magical bonuses it may already have. A +1 keen flaming longsowrd would cost the same to create as a +3 longsword for example.

3) Sounds like a good idea to me.

4) Make the gems out of ectoplasm that dematerializes after X hours/minutes/rounds after creation? Not sure on this one...
28th-Aug-2005 03:05 am (UTC)
4) If you have an understanding playing, try just mentioning it to him. Say you messed up, and ask him if you can just rule that he didn't find all these gems. Don't rewrite the game, but just take away all his cash. A good player will let the DM take away his loopholes or take back a bad ruling. But then not all players are good players.

If there is a glut, having the value of gems go down works. It seems reasonable to me. So he can keep getting gems, but they're suddenly only worth a fraction of the price, so the effort isn't worth it.

If you want to do a thing with the Big Scary Monster, don't just have it be waiting for him. Have it come after him. BSM decides he wants this stockpile of gems and comes a-claiming. Or maybe a whole race of BSMs lives on gems (like they eat them), and so invade the Prime Material since it has become a ready source of food. So the PCs have to take care of an invasion of rock-eating, innocent-bystander-slaying monsters, and in the end they've eaten most the gems so there isn't a glut to the rest of the players. Then you just stop having him find so many gems.

Really, doing something like the above may work best. Alright, so you've messed up and the PC now has a lot of gems (or a lot of gems are present on the Prime Material). So take advantage of the situation. Create some adventure which involves all these gems.

Maybe he took the one gem that holds the stability of a certain plane/gate/creature whatever together, and now has to find that gem. But which one is it? He's sold gems all over the world!! Now you get to go reintroduce your NPC shopkeepers. Perhaps the one he sold it to owes money to a demonic thieves guild. All kinds of launching places. Another idea: Dwarven miners strike as their labor isn't worth anything now (since there are so many gems in the world), and they send a Dwarven assassin after the PC.

In short, turn your mistake into an adventure and then stop the flow of money.
28th-Aug-2005 12:03 pm (UTC)
How about an angry Dao (earth genie) from MM2 or Fiend Folio?
28th-Aug-2005 04:57 am (UTC)
WHy haven't the beings of Earth stepped into this situation? We're talking GODS here!

There might even be metaphysical consequences to unbalancing the material between the prime material plane and the Elemental Planes...
28th-Aug-2005 07:53 am (UTC)
Surely the percentage of gems on the plane of earth must be similar to the percentage usually found in rock, and will also need mining out? Aren't the plane of earth's creatures made of rock? perhaps he's been killing off the young of some creature by harvesting all these gems.

Making the prices for gems drop is quite reasonable, but it does set a precedent that can be rather awkward (unless you're an accounting/mathmatics god:>) for when adventurers arrive in an area with sack-fulls of gold(which would cause local instability in gold prices if nothing else) or magic items...if magic items drop in price then the PCs will be able to buy them cheaper too etc.

28th-Aug-2005 12:05 pm (UTC)
Folugub, from XPH. Rust Monster for Crystals, says bye bye money!
28th-Aug-2005 11:55 am (UTC)
I think that such wealth would attract the attention of powerful groups who would like to know where a never ending supply of gems is coming from. wouldn't he be surprised to find a mining operation on the plane of earth.
28th-Aug-2005 02:14 pm (UTC)
1- the bonus only adds to spellsper day. A crappy amount of spells known is intended to be their weak point.

2- eight thousand. each effect stacks (at least where the price is concerned).

3- Since nothing is said about it in the book it's entirely up to you. I'd go with the clasic "black hole" effect.

4- Wow. I've always had a problem with overpowered characters, so pardon me if some of these suggestions are harsh.

A- for one thing, the gems in the plane are most likely not just laying around. He should have to mine them. Mining is incredibly hard work, and it's nearly impossible for one person to accomplish anything by himself.

B- It should also be noted that mine shafts tend to collapse. (ouch)

C- Creatures on the plane of earth are made of gem and crystal. Make up (or modify) a crystal or rock based creature whose offspring (or eggs) appear to be priceless gems. This could lead to either a massive confrontation with big momma, or the eggs could hatch and terrorize the market he's selling them to.
28th-Aug-2005 02:21 pm (UTC)
1) No.

2) A +1 Keen Longsword is a +2 weapon, since you can't have simply a Keen Longsword. Therefore, it is priced as a +2 weapon, and a +1 Keen Flaming Longsword is a +3.

3) Pocket Dimensions are funny things. They have their own rules of reality. It's ENTIRELY up to you, as a DM, to determine what happens when they interact with one another. If you've ever heard of people trying to turn their bags of holding inside out, and pulling them over their heads inverted so they can look through walls, you've heard some of the crazy things that people can do (or try to do) with 'em.

4) The value wouldn't plummet for a while, especially if it were to simply trickle into the market. A rapid influx of gems would be strange, and probably unsettling, but there's really nothing wrong with it. You have to ask yourself though: would this player be the first one -ever- to have thought of such a thing? The denizens of the Plane of Earth wouldn't take very kindly to continued theft of their gems, and a trained eye might be able to tell the origins of the gems, as well.

Not to mention that if you have a hidden source of gems, you'll be drawing the curious eyes of miners everywhere, and more than likely have an army of grumpy dwarves (pun is ever so intended) up your ass trying to get them.
28th-Aug-2005 05:31 pm (UTC)
4) I have a player that is a planar vanguard (the psionic version of a plane shifter), and he, much to my own mistake as a DM, has turned the plane of earth into his neverending supply of money.

This is a great opportunity for you, actually.

The "real" gain a magic-user (inclusive of psions) can get from any spellwork should be in line with what the marked will charge for a spell to be cast. (Caster level x [spell level x 10 gp] x [spell level x 10 gp] is the cost, use "power points spent" as "caster level" for psions.)

Any gain on top of that is due to something else--in your case, I'd say either a higher-level Psion (or group of Psions) who was using your PC to aid his wealth gathering (and, ah, now wants HIS fair share), or an elemmental gem-demon wants to invade, and your Psion was unwittingly helping him.

(Or, if you don't want to do that, just say he got lucky and the well dries up next time he goes.)


On a final note, remember that the Elemental Plane of Earth is infinite -- far larger than any one person could ever explore. And, if even only the part of it that's the same size as the campaign world were decimated, and the detribus taken to the Prime, the Prime would be suddenly covered in mountians of gems hundreds of miles wide and tens of thousands of feet high.

Think the entire continent of Asia, ground up and dropped on America. Ten or twenty times.
29th-Aug-2005 06:41 am (UTC)
1) Spells per day only.

2) +2.

3) Same.

4) And doing such things with the Plane of Earth isn't going to offend any Higher Powers? (Note: Teleport is only a useful escape at mid-level)
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