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D&D 3E
is there any reason why a bard can't use animate rope on a whip he's… 
6th-Jan-2005 12:05 pm
boke1
is there any reason why a bard can't use animate rope on a whip he's weilding as a weapon? my dm seems to think i can't because the spell description says it can't be used on anything carried by a creature, i think that means i can't use it on a whip or a rope carried by some one else, but obviously i can use it on something *I'M* carrying. thoughts?
Comments 
6th-Jan-2005 05:09 pm (UTC)
I'd rule no as well. The bard in question is a creature. The rope needs to be unattended, and, well, it needs to be a rope, not a whip.
6th-Jan-2005 05:16 pm (UTC)
it doesn't say unattended, check this out:
You can animate a nonliving ropelike object. The maximum length assumes a rope with a 1-inch diameter.
Reduce the maximum length by 50% for every additional inch of thickness, and increase it by 50% for each reduction of the rope’s diameter by half.
The possible commands are “coil” (form a neat, coiled stack), “coil and knot,” “loop,” “loop and knot,” “tie and knot,” and the opposites of all of the above (“uncoil,” and so forth). You can give one command each round as a move action, as if directing an active spell.
The rope can enwrap only a creature or an object within 1 foot of it—it does not snake outward—so it must be thrown near the intended target. Doing so requires a successful ranged touch attack roll (range increment 10 feet). A typical 1- inch-diameter hempen rope has 2 hit points, AC 10, and requires a DC 23 Strength check to burst it. The rope does not deal damage, but it can be used as a trip line or to cause a single opponent that fails a Reflex saving throw to become entangled. A creature capable of spellcasting that is bound by this spell must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast a spell. An entangled creature can slip free with a DC 20 Escape Artist check.
The rope itself and any knots tied in it are not magical.
This spell grants a +2 bonus on any Use Rope checks you make when using the transmuted rope.
The spell cannot animate objects carried or worn by a creature.

the italics are mine. i can see how you'd read it either way. the version in the phb goes into more detail on the "can't be used on a carried object" that i think makes my case for it meaning something carried by someone else, not me. besides, if its got to be something i'm not carrying, what's to stop me from dropping it, animating it, and then picking it up again and using it?
6th-Jan-2005 05:18 pm (UTC)
I think dropping it, animating it and picking it up again is fine. It's magic. :D
6th-Jan-2005 05:23 pm (UTC)
A whip is a 'rope-like object', which is the target for Animate Rope. So it, in and of itself, qualifies.

I don't think it is a balance issue if the DM allows you to animate it in your hands, but I can understand not doing so. If the intent is for simple showmanship, there is no problem, but if you are trying to gain a combnat advantage above the abilities of Animate Rope, I'd probably disallow. 8shrug*
6th-Jan-2005 05:34 pm (UTC)
my plan is to use it indiana jones style, to whip out at stuff 15' or less away and wrap around them, and to entangle opponents. a whip has a 15' reach, the spell says you need a ranged touch attack to entangle, that's my plan, whip, entangle, repeat...
6th-Jan-2005 06:57 pm (UTC)
you can generally do that sort of thing with the whip already, without a spell. "when using a whip, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent"--
so yeah. i guess i just don't see why you'd need animate rope. if your bard is already good with the whip- which i'd presume he/she is, using it as a weapon... you really shouldn't need to.
{for example... recently, a character of mine who's a dominatrix had a run-in with a drow high priestess, so she grabbed the bitch by the neck with her whip in a grand display of power... you should be able to do similar stuff.}
6th-Jan-2005 05:17 pm (UTC)
It's magic. It doesn't have to be logical. I think if you're carrying it; the spell doesn't work.
6th-Jan-2005 05:31 pm (UTC)
I would rule that you could animate it, but that you couldn't then use it as a whip, as the magic would interfere with its movement. So, you can use it as a normal whip, or as a magic rope, but not both simultaneously.
6th-Jan-2005 06:33 pm (UTC)
> So, you can use it as a normal whip, or as a magic rope, but not both simultaneously.

Why not give it the command "play dead"? ;)
6th-Jan-2005 06:47 pm (UTC)
Because that's not listed as an option in the spell description.
6th-Jan-2005 05:34 pm (UTC)
is there a range for this or is it just touch? I would look this up but my books are far away. Regardless i think what the spirit of the rule is, is that you can't affect an attended object by this spell in other words if someone else has it then you can't do anything to it. and since it says rope like object a whip would definitely qualify.
6th-Jan-2005 06:27 pm (UTC)
is there any reason why a bard can't use animate rope on a whip he's weilding as a weapon?

No. But once you do so, you can't use both sets of rules together (at least not withour your DM creating a new feat, which he probably won't want to do.)

If you want to use your whip to entangle someone a'la the Use Rope spell, you'll have to let go of the rope. Ordinarily you would have to throw the whip at the creature, but I'd allow you to make a touch attack with the whip (or a trip check) to get that effect.

BTW, if the only thing you want to do is knock folk down, you can do that with a whip already. Read the equipment description, and realize that, as a melee weapon, a whip can be used for just about any attack action save grappling.
6th-Jan-2005 07:22 pm (UTC)
Umm...I dunno about 3.5, but with 3rd Ed, read the power play area in the back of *most* PHBs, and they even give the idea of using animate rope in conjunction with improved trip, and I believe it works on a whip, as stated, but I can't be sure.
6th-Jan-2005 07:28 pm (UTC)
I agree with the others, no you cannot use it as a weapon AND as an "animated rope"...

However, I see the possibility for a new prestige class... heheheh...
6th-Jan-2005 08:10 pm (UTC)
I would say you can use the spell on your whip as you carry it; it'd be like willing failing the save on a spell.

But as a DM, I would say it was difficult if not impossible to use the two together. You maybe be able to attack someone with the whip, but then timing your move action so that it coils at the correct time would probably take some kind of intelligence check.

But I say it's a clever use of the spell, go for it. But I'm not your DM--that's who you have to check with, not the varied opinions of this forum.
7th-Jan-2005 12:48 am (UTC)
Dropping the rope is a free action anyway...

If it was my campaign, I'd rule that you could cast it on something you carry, but if your DM doesn't like that, just drop the rope, cast the spell, then use a move action to pick it up again next turn.

You can do a ranged touch attack with it in the same turn (1 move, 1 attack) so I don't really see how you lose much, other than a move (and possibly an aoe if your DM thinks you provoke one picking it up?)
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